Vegas & The Aftermath - Diary

[The Camel]

Notice the common theme to your suckouts?

I always said that Colclough fella was a bok.

[theprawnidentity]

How do you go about valuing a forum like this? That's an absolute shed load of Nandos!!!!

[tikay]

How do you go about valuing a forum like this? That's an absolute shed load of Nandos!!!!

Times were different then, Online poker was awash with money, anyone who binked a two bit Tourney got sponsored, Rakeback wars raged, & we had an Online Cardroom, with an attched Casino & all the bells & whistles.

What could possibly go wrong?

Safe to say, since then, the value of the site has dropped. Just a bit..... Still, on the bright side, the value can't drop any lower.

[redarmi]

Its incredible when you look back at some of the business deals that have been done over the years and valuations etc both in terms of great and appalling value.  As much as I love Blonde the idea/business plan that made someone think it was worth £800k is a spreadsheet I would have loved to have seen.  We have all been there.  I was once involved in putting together a deal that proposed paying the football365 and associated brands £19m over 5 years for advertising a brand that we hadn't put together yet.  At the time they had a market capitalisation of over £500m and, amazingly, got a better offer of some kind.  A few weeks later the market crashed and it all fell to pieces.  Was also involved in a proposed deal to bring a sports betting business and casino business together with, the little known Party Poker together in a listed vehicle.  The owners of Party were to get £5m for their business but in between agreeing a price and bringing it all together their business took off and they decided they wanted another £2m.  The guys that were putting together the financing were greatly offended by this and decided to drop them from the deal.......2 years later Party floated for £5bn!!! 

[tikay]

Massive:

http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/07/google-internet-traffic/

Simply unbelievable.

By spooky coincidence, given that I just mentioned Chris Evans, I first heard of google on his original Radio 1 Breakfast Show, before he entetred his loopy phase from which he has now thankfully emerged.

He said that the reaction time was near instantaneous. In those days, we were all on dial up, & it took several minutes for a page to load. They never advertised then, but word of mouth did the trick, & we were soon all hooked.

I suppose the EEC or whoever will file Anti-Trust lawsuits against them soon, for being too successful, as they did with Microsoft.

It is a weird world when successful businesses are maligned for being successful.

Next door, on Company Lappies, the default Search Engine is "Bing", which is Microsoft. It really is very poor compared to google.

Anti-competitive practices? Maybe. But I'm a grown up now, & I'll deal with it myself thank you.

If I tried to figure out what stuff has changed my life for the better and worse more than anything, I'm sure the internet would be near the top of the list. Everything good & bad is there. I mean, here.

I remembered this video from 3 years ago when Google were trying to show that Google Chrome^* was quick, really quick.

^* Google Chrome is Google's browser, like Internet Explorer which you no doubt use in the office.

Excellent!

How do these guys monetise a browser?

As you perceptively note, the company lappies all default to IE.

From time to time, I have a need to use another broswer - Firefox & Chrome spring to mind - & I just download them for free. So how do they monetise them? Did anyone, ever, anywhere, ever PAY for, say, Firefox?

I was musing something similar at the weekend, (well not very similar, but equally interesting") when watching the Golf.

I know all about raising brand awareness, profile raising, da de da, but if you want a 200 seat civil aeroplane, (a fairly narrow market) you go shopping at one of two places - Boeing or Airbus.

Anyway, Ernie Els had the prime spots on his shirts, jumpers & golf apparel reserved for "Boeing".

How that work?

Some folks are watching the golf, undecided as to whether to purchase a $300 million 737 or A-320, & they see Ernie in a Boeing shirt, ZING, I'll go for the Boeing I think.


http://www.ernieels.com/golf/Boeing_new_sponsorship_deal.html

Click to see full-size image.

[tikay]

Its incredible when you look back at some of the business deals that have been done over the years and valuations etc both in terms of great and appalling value.  As much as I love Blonde the idea/business plan that made someone think it was worth £800k is a spreadsheet I would have loved to have seen.  We have all been there.  I was once involved in putting together a deal that proposed paying the football365 and associated brands £19m over 5 years for advertising a brand that we hadn't put together yet.  At the time they had a market capitalisation of over £500m and, amazingly, got a better offer of some kind.  A few weeks later the market crashed and it all fell to pieces.  Was also involved in a proposed deal to bring a sports betting business and casino business together with, the little known Party Poker together in a listed vehicle.  The owners of Party were to get £5m for their business but in between agreeing a price and bringing it all together their business took off and they decided they wanted another £2m.  The guys that were putting together the financing were greatly offended by this and decided to drop them from the deal.......2 years later Party floated for £5bn!!! 

Great stuff Stuart.

For the record, it was widely agreed that blonde's worth was nothing even approaching that. By any realistic valuation (at the time) it was £200k, £250k tops.

So I was neither shocked nor overly put out when it fell through. If it happened, happy days, if it did not, the value was identical to what it was prior to their interest. A weasel was spotted sleeping, but just as we prepared to take aim, it woke up.

But some of the deals around at the time were astonishing, by any standards.

The market has changed completely now, & in my opinion, very much for the better. Sanity had to gain the upper hold eventually.

The days of ridiculous rake wars have gone foerever. It is as tough as hell for a skin to make a decent living, once the Network Charges, cage costs, da de da, have all been paid for, then you have to pay a bit of rake. It don't leave much.

I'm in awe of the likes of Rob Yong & Neil Channing trying to earn a crust from a poker site. As a standalone site (unless you are 'Stars) it must be well uphill.

blonde did it for a few years, & I've never known such aggro. We earned $16,000 one month, & then the Service Provider said "oh, by the way, you have $22,000 of dodgy credit card deposits to pay for".

How come?  Send us the details.

So they did. And we discovered they had been taking NEW DEPOSITS via Credit card from Afghanistan, Russia, Iraq, Sierra Leone. WTF?!

So we said "but we don''t advertise, operate or have a presence in those places, surely you know they must be bogus transactions?"

"Ahh, but under the Contract, that is not our responsiblity" they said.

We toyed with the idea of going Legal on them. So we looked at their Letterhead. "Operated according to Cayman Islands Law".

Fair enough, help yourself then boys.

You don't half learn some lessons in life, as you trundle along the bendy bumpy road.

It does tickle me though when I see the kids being "on life tilt" over some minor poker inconvenience! God knows how they will cope they have to encounter some proper tilty stuff.

[Tal]

Unfathomable numbers, chaps, and quite some stories, Tikay. Goodness me.



Clap of thunder in Birmingham.

Imagine a thousand foot Rolf Harris just wobbled a piece of cardboard the size of the Hoover Dam. Storm's a-comin'



Am just watching a programme on BBCFOUR called Some Vicars with Jokes. Sort of a follow on from Old Jews Telling Jokes, which I loved. A series of shaggy dog stories from priests, vicars, deacons, canons and other folk of cloth.

First one really tickled me, even though it could have been in The Comedians:

[redarmi]

Think it is a bit more subtle than that Tikay.  I think if you are buying a £300m jet you get invited to the golf in their suite and then after his round Ernie maybe stops by and says Hi and then mentions he is playing Augusta next week and how about you and the guys from Boeing join him for a round....

[tikay]

Unfathomable numbers, chaps, and quite some stories, Tikay. Goodness me.



Clap of thunder in Birmingham.

Imagine a thousand foot Rolf Harris just wobbled a piece of cardboard the size of the Hoover Dam. Storm's a-comin'



Am just watching a programme on BBCFOUR called Some Vicars with Jokes. Sort of a follow on from Old Jews Telling Jokes, which I loved. A series of shaggy dog stories from priests, vicars, deacons, canons and other folk of cloth.

First one really tickled me, even though it could have been in The Comedians:

Yup, monster electrical thunderstorm here right now.

BOOOMMMMMMMM

[tikay]

Think it is a bit more subtle than that Tikay.  I think if you are buying a £300m jet you get invited to the golf in their suite and then after his round Ernie maybe stops by and says Hi and then mentions he is playing Augusta next week and how about you and the guys from Boeing join him for a round....

Well yes, that's the system, but Airlines buy jet aeroplanes in blocks of 50 & 100. Surely a bit of Corporate schmoozing is hardly gonna make a jot of difference to a sixty trillion order??

Does the system really think they can get round the likes of BA, Air France, South West Airlines, Stelios, or, God forbid, Lord Sir His Papal Holiness Archbishop Michael O'Leary with a round of golf?

[Jac]

This will all sound a bit jumbled. (I've had a few)
William Hill was the first site I played on. This was due to Julian, their sponsored pro at he time, giving me a Rakeback card at Gala. I had no idea what Rakeback was then but signed up anyway.
It was on Crypto, I loved crypto. What happened to them?
As you say, some of the deals available at that time were ridiculous. I started on interpoker after a while and received 30% Rakeback,  plus for getting a certain amount of player points a month £200 from the site itself. As a rec player it certainly wasn't
much volume required to get this bonus on top of the Rakeback.
Didn't know we were born.

Why do you think so many sites have fallen by the wayside whilst others have flourished?

[tikay]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/jul/18/sports-direct-staff-bonus-profits

"Four years ago all full-time staff who had been with the company since 2008 were promised free shares if profit targets were hit in 2009. When that target was hit they were handed a 25% bonus on their base salary, paid in shares worth £1 each. Those shares soared in value, and when a first 25% tranche of free shares were awarded last year, someone earning £20,000 a year almost doubled their take-home pay with shares worth £17,500.

While impressive, that payout was a mere pittance compared with the huge windfall that follows Thursday's results. The same staff member earning £20,000 will now get 12,000 shares worth a further £75,000.

The lucky 2,000 are now free to sell the shares – and Sports Direct has even provided a free stockbroking service to help them cash in."

Lovely!

Makes me chuckle when I see Newcastle United supporters describe Mike Ashley as an "idiot" & a "clown". The supporters know better than him, obv.

What a weird world we live in!

Do u write these things do get a bite?! I don't think the supports are doubting the way he runs his business, tho all Newcastle fans boycott his shops. Being a football chairman, you're never gonna be popular by making the club run self sufficiently, which is what he's done. He is the only billionaire football club owner who isn't throwing cash at the club, which is the only way to compete with Chelsea, Man City etc.

You can't call him an idiot or clown for not wanting to do that. You can, however, call him an idiot for changing the name of St James's Park, which has been called that for 120 years. History is important to football fans and Newcastle fans, whose team are obv nowhere near as good as they were in the past.

Bringing in Dennis Wise, probably the most hated player (who didn't play for Sunderland) I can remember in 30 years following them was pretty idiotic. Signing a sponsorship deal with a money lending firm, when your three best (at least) players are Muslims and this may cause a conflict/excuse for them to leave is not very bright either.

From a Newcastle supporting point of view, the man is an idiot. He's an idiot to have any interest in the club as well, surely he doesn't need the hassle. From a business point of view he's very successful and good at what he does. I think you're confusing the comments with some kind of assessment of his business prowess.

If people call John Terry an idiot for the way he behaves, it doesn't stop him being an excellent centre half

Not forgotten this Jeff.

I do occasionally spread a bit of ground bait, good naturedly of course, but no, in this case, I was serious.

It will take me an age to reply, & I'll need to do so in bite size chunks, because from where I sit, many of your arguments are flawed.

But we won't fall out, eh? That's an order, not a request.  

Let's start with the easy stuff.


Signing a sponsorship deal with a money lending firm, when your three best (at least) players are Muslims and this may cause a conflict/excuse for them to leave is not very bright either.

Ahh, Wonga.com.

Listen, I bet I have more reason to despise them than every Newcastle United supporter added together. Their dreadful sysyems caused me to be defrauded to the tune of nearly £15,000 earlier this year. And I have NEVER had any dealings with Wonga. I got every penny back from the Bank eventually, but jeez, on the way I had so much aggro & stress.

But you mention the Muslim footballers who are in conflict because Wonga loan money? So they cannot countenance receiving Wonga's shilling, right? What about the Barclays shilling though? They sponsor the Premier League. And Barclays make their money by........loaning money to others. Same thing, different degrees of interest.

Credit Card companies sponsored several Championship sides too. 26% APR, is it?

Then there is Ramadan. Very few Muslim footballers could obey the Ramadan strictures & still play Pro football during the 30 days of Ramadan. Most of them manage, though. So I don't honestly buy the Wonga offends Muslim footballers thing.

And that is just for starters. Plenty more to follow.

Play nicely now.....

[The Camel]

Its incredible when you look back at some of the business deals that have been done over the years and valuations etc both in terms of great and appalling value.  As much as I love Blonde the idea/business plan that made someone think it was worth £800k is a spreadsheet I would have loved to have seen.  We have all been there.  I was once involved in putting together a deal that proposed paying the football365 and associated brands £19m over 5 years for advertising a brand that we hadn't put together yet.  At the time they had a market capitalisation of over £500m and, amazingly, got a better offer of some kind.  A few weeks later the market crashed and it all fell to pieces.  Was also involved in a proposed deal to bring a sports betting business and casino business together with, the little known Party Poker together in a listed vehicle.  The owners of Party were to get £5m for their business but in between agreeing a price and bringing it all together their business took off and they decided they wanted another £2m.  The guys that were putting together the financing were greatly offended by this and decided to drop them from the deal.......2 years later Party floated for £5bn!!!  

Great stuff Stuart.

For the record, it was widely agreed that blonde's worth was nothing even approaching that. By any realistic valuation (at the time) it was £200k, £250k tops.

So I was neither shocked nor overly put out when it fell through. If it happened, happy days, if it did not, the value was identical to what it was prior to their interest. A weasel was spotted sleeping, but just as we prepared to take aim, it woke up.

But some of the deals around at the time were astonishing, by any standards.

The market has changed completely now, & in my opinion, very much for the better. Sanity had to gain the upper hold eventually.

The days of ridiculous rake wars have gone foerever. It is as tough as hell for a skin to make a decent living, once the Network Charges, cage costs, da de da, have all been paid for, then you have to pay a bit of rake. It don't leave much.

I'm in awe of the likes of Rob Yong & Neil Channing trying to earn a crust from a poker site. As a standalone site (unless you are 'Stars) it must be well uphill.

blonde did it for a few years, & I've never known such aggro. We earned $16,000 one month, & then the Service Provider said "oh, by the way, you have $22,000 of dodgy credit card deposits to pay for".

How come?  Send us the details.

So they did. And we discovered they had been taking NEW DEPOSITS via Credit card from Afghanistan, Russia, Iraq, Sierra Leone. WTF?!

So we said "but we don''t advertise, operate or have a presence in those places, surely you know they must be bogus transactions?"

"Ahh, but under the Contract, that is not our responsiblity" they said.

We toyed with the idea of going Legal on them. So we looked at their Letterhead. "Operated according to Cayman Islands Law".

Fair enough, help yourself then boys.

You don't half learn some lessons in life, as you trundle along the bendy bumpy road.

It does tickle me though when I see the kids being "on life tilt" over some minor poker inconvenience! God knows how they will cope they have encounter some proper tilty stuff.

Rank paid Intercapital a huge amount for Blue Squirrel. £180m rings a bell

Sold to Betfair for £5m 10 years later

Why they didn't launch their own site is absolutely beyond me.

Bugger only knows how much they lost in total - I'd be surprised if Bluesq made any money in the 10 years they owned it.

[tikay]

This will all sound a bit jumbled. (I've had a few)
William Hill was the first site I played on. This was due to Julian, their sponsored pro at he time, giving me a Rakeback card at Gala. I had no idea what Rakeback was then but signed up anyway.
It was on Crypto, I loved crypto. What happened to them?
As you say, some of the deals available at that time were ridiculous. I started on interpoker after a while and received 30% Rakeback,  plus for getting a certain amount of player points a month £200 from the site itself. As a rec player it certainly wasn't
much volume required to get this bonus on top of the Rakeback.
Didn't know we were born.

Why do you think so many sites have fallen by the wayside whilst others have flourished?

Seat for Paul Jackson, seat for Paul Jackson.......

Too late at night to answer that Paul, but good to see you here.

Will try & answer soonest, if someone else does not beat me to it. Great question though.

Look forward to seeing you at the weekend. It'll be tremendous fun, I'm quite sure.

[rfgqqabc]

Mansion, the ultimate goldmine. I still bully my housemate for not playing the ridiculous 50k(? might have even been 100k?) guarantee tourney that never got close to the mark. He also had 110% rakeback deal as a prop for a time, quite a nifty deal for a 6max turned HU specialist!

Seem obscene beats there Tikay. And that norcal blokes blog is tilting. I'm sure I have 10% of that in me but sometimes a fish is a fish!