Vegas & The Aftermath - Diary

[tikay]

Next daft question.

In Tournament Poker, when both or all players are all-in, we have to turn our cards face up on the table. It's pretty much, so far as I know, a Universal Poker Rule, one of the few which is consistent everywhere, certainly in Europe.

In Cash Games, we have no such obligation. Again, Universally observed, no question, so far as I am aware.

Why is that? What makes one so very different to the other?

I don't know why, but i do disagree with it, i think if you are all in then the cards should be on there backs, regardless of tournament or cash game.

A view we both share, then.

I'm really interested in why the difference, though. It also intrigues me how come poker players - & we are, collectively - geeky, argumentative & prepared to challenge the most basic of concepts - readily accept these mysteries without question.

When I was a youngster, I used to work in a Betting Shop on a Saturday, & mark up the prices & Results on the white-board or "sheets". Even then, I was "awkward" & inquisitive to life's anomolies & oddities, and any horse or dog which was quoted or returned at 6/4 I used to write on the sheet/board as 3/2. Folks would say "hey, that's wrong, it's 6/4", (!) which is of course exactly & precisely the same thing, & we always use the lowest common denominator in SP's. Imagine a 2/1 shot being called 4/2, or a 9/4 shot being written as 18/8!

Except when it's 3/2, in which case they call it 6/4. Explain THAT!

The sp system and in fact the prices commonly used in betting make no sense at all. If you were inventing the system now and said  we are gonna use 11/8 which is is 2.38 instead of using 7/5 which is 2.4 you would be laughed at. Why use 15/8 instead of 19/10?, or 13/8 instead of 8/5?

When I did footy for Hills we did a big customer poll during one of the quiet summers and found that the thing that put most new football punters off is that the prices all look complicated. We decided to use easily devisable prices instead and to the experienced punter 17/20 21/20 19/20 and the prices above where like gobbledegook but to new and inexperienced punters its easier to work out 20 quid at 17/20 than 20 quid at 5/6, how about 10 quid at 7/5 or 10 quid at 11/8?

These were predictably poo pooed by the experienced people as change usually is but the smaller and importantly newer customers liked them a lot and the feed back was very good.

In their current and century old acceptable form they are daft.

A terrific, & insightful Post, Phil.

I know youngsters (oops, Ageism again) struggle with the Maths of 13/8 & 11/8 etc, whereas you & I can do it in our head in a trice, using the old evens plus a quarter plus a half (or vice-versa) trick, but in fact, I quite like these lovely anachroisms.

I really did not likie it at all when Greyhound Racing distances converted from yards to metres, somehow 29.56 for 500 yards made sense, & whatever it is for 500 metres never did, because I was reared on times based on yards.

I do hope British Horseracing never converts to Metres, I think it's ather lovely that, for example, "The Derby" at Epsom (actually, it's real title is "The Derby Stakes") is always said to be a mile and a half, or 12 furlongs (where else are Furlongs used these days?), but actually, it's 1 mile, 4 furlongs, & 10 yards. So quaint, so British, so lovely. The St Leger was always - still is I think - 1 mile, 6 furlongs, & 132 yards, & The Eclipse & Nassau had (have?) equally quirky distances. Some Races are described as "5 furlongs & about 168 yards"...... Love it.

[tikay]

Table Selection is all.

I played the 10 Runner Omaha at DTD on Wednesday Evening, & lined up behind me, all in a row, on Sentry Duty, were Chubbs, Simon Trumper, & ActionJack. Not a bad value Reality MasterClass though, for £100. Unsurprisingly, I failed to trouble the judges, & limped home battered & bruised in 5th. On my dying shove, the whole bloody lot called me & checked it down all the way, sigh. Guess they were scared I'd outplay them, & were pleased to be rid of the favourite.

Moved to the DC, & soon, in addition to Doc Makawana - & I just love that guy, & he has terrific game & table demeanuer, & takes my money with such good grace - I had ActionJack & one Jon "skalie" Kalmar behind me. Skalie stayed for 2 hours, as pre-agreed, & walked away £2k to the good.

Meanwhile, ActionJack said he'd stay for an hour, which was just long enough for him & me to get tangled up with his no-brainer no get off-er.

I am holding, in 4 card High Only Omaha, T-8-8-3. Paul, unbeknown to me, held J-J-T-8.

Our flop was T-T-3. Good as it gets, Nut House, catch me if you can. I bet, he calls. Must have the other Ten. I know my hand is good, & I also know it's vulnerable, but one street at a time, eh?

The Turn was....8

I bet again, I still have the Nut House, he calls again. Wow, that's interesting. I got the Improved Nuts now, & he's still calling. I mean, there's only one 8 left in the Pack, so I'm still good, tying at worst, for absolute sure......

The River was the.......J.

So I pre-ejaculated a bit & quickly put what little was now left of my £800 in the middle, & Paul took the lot. This wait till I'm behind & then shove thing can get expensive.

Fact is, he went in ahead, fell behind, caught up, then overtook me again. How can I complain at that? But it's not easy to dodge these bullets.

Doc caught me, too. I held Q-9 on a Q-Q-9 flop, & made the fatal Omaha error of trying to play it cute, & allowed him to bet behind me, & I just called instead of ramming. (Greed does us so often). Of course, the A Turned, & he was holding Aces. Such is life, again, he went in ahead, & came out ahead, I just showed good middle speed. In this case, of course, it was get offable. But if I'd Check-Raised his Flop Bet, it was all over, he Passes in a flash.

Bad "form" or poor luck leads, in my case, to bad decisions, & bad play, generally.

In a Super-Stud hand, it's clear that both my opponents are on the High, & I have the only low draw, flush draw too, so my odds are good. Annoyingly, I backdoored a set, & hoped it was good for the High, even though my Low missed. They showed a House, & quads....Shocking play by me, but it happens to me when I'm running bad.

Last week, I ran good, & played good, this week I've run bad, & played like a donkey. Or maybe it's t'other way round - I play bad & then run bad?

I fancy I only made two real mistakes that night - when I realised I was running bad, I shoulda quit. And that Table Selection thing.....

OK, Nap-Time. Tonight I plan to run good.

[wormster]

Hi Steve,

You may - just may - get the Prize, though I've no idea if it's correct, but it's the best answer yet, & does show some originality of thought.

Missing you mate. Have you grown taller yet, or are you still miniature?
[/quote]

I'm still minature, but can you believe that I've found a lovely young lady who happens to be SHORTER than me??  all good things come in small packages eh?? 

[tikay]

Hi Steve,

You may - just may - get the Prize, though I've no idea if it's correct, but it's the best answer yet, & does show some originality of thought.

Missing you mate. Have you grown taller yet, or are you still miniature?

I'm still minature, but can you believe that I've found a lovely young lady who happens to be SHORTER than me??  all good things come in small packages eh?? 


[/quote]

Hard to believe. Indeed, sounds like a tall story.

I'm delighted for you both. I hope you are both very happy, settle down, & that all your problems be small big.

[Karabiner]

Played live last weekend, caught a horrendous cold, enough said.

Ah well, I concede. Pee Germs cause colds, it's a well-known fact.....

You probably caught a cold because players sneeze & cough left right & centre without using a handkerchief or turning their heads away, which, to my mind, is the height of ill-manners. And that DOES cause cough & cold transference. Fact.

It's the youngsters wots to blame, of course. And to save Kinboshi Posting, yes, it's Ageism again.

On a constant logical thinking curve here but when you enter a gents there is usually a sign on the wll saying 'now please wash your hands'.

Your hands have been exposed to allsorts of germs and dirt thru the day and your penis has been tucked away in your pants after you showered all warm and away from germs and dirt(usually), so after touching your clean area with your dirty hands you now have to wash your dirty hands and not the old man??

The sign should day' Now please wash your privates'

When I use the gents I wash my hands before and after.

We'll obviously have to get all of the gents. washbasins lowered in that case...

[vegaslover]

After observing the number of people that walk out of the toilets without washing hands, I have gone right off handshakes in card rooms, as well as eating anything at the table.

Is there a 100% correlation between a feeble handshake and depth of character?

No, nowhere near

[vegaslover]

Ah - my specialist subject -  germ transference.

I carry wipes everywhere and use tissues to open the loo doors. Stayed in a hotel yesterday where I'm pretty sure I was dirtier after having a bath than before.

The worry is what we can't see. Everytime you fush your loo at home without closing the lid lots of particles come up in the vapour and land on the bath, walls, surfaces and toothbrushes. I rest my case.

How about when you can smell people's farts it's actually their faecal particles attached to receptors in your nose!!!

[vegaslover]

why do so many mothers not feed their babies breast milik?

Many don't want to due to losing shape, others can't be arsed or give up when they find out how difficult/painful it is to begin with. Those that tend to breastfeed are those that are on the higher demographics age wise.

re: sterilising everything. We did this for 6 months with little un, he has never been been 'ill' yet.

[Harmony26]

When I was in Egypt, I was warned not to allow the waters of the Nile to make contact with my skin. I'm sure it was good advice.

I watched the natives relieve themselves in it, drink from it, swim in it, and cook with it. It didn't bother them at all, they were immune.

I am the same with Harmony's cooking..........

 

PS:  I can assure you Bainn washes his hands very, very thoroughly - we go through immense quantities of soap in our house.

[tikay]

Had a lovely evening at Luton, with Compo, Dingdell, Claw, Jeff Buff, & all the usual locals, & Tracey did the business.

Shunning the planned early night (I thew my Tourney chips away stupidly messing with Jeff Buff) I played DC with Compo, Ambro, Murray Brown, Peter etc, & had a ball, but it all went a bit sour near the end.

Compo got in a big Omaha High Pot - maybe £600 or £800 & rammed every street with his oh-so-obvious Aces, all-in by the Turn, but ran into top trips. "Aces" says Compo, tabling his hand for all to see, "trips" says pretty Lady, & chips are passed towards her. Suddenly I notice he's caught a straight, & say "err, he has the Straight", & the Pot is then passed to him. Sadly, Pretty Lady ain't too happy with me, & after a venting her wrath on all & sundry, it all went a but sullen & moody.

I'd have said the same if it were the other way round, but she was not gonna forgive me. Ah well, such is life.

Up early on the morrow, collect Chili, & thence to Blackpool for their splendid £300-er, with 15k Chips.

[LLevan]

Had a lovely evening at Luton, with Compo, Dingdell, Claw, Jeff Buff, & all the usual locals, & Tracey did the business.

Shunning the planned early night (I thew my Tourney chips away stupidly messing with Jeff Buff) I played DC with Compo, Ambro, Murray Brown, Peter etc, & had a ball, but it all went a bit sour near the end.

Compo got in a big Omaha High Pot - maybe £600 or £800 & rammed every street with his oh-so-obvious Aces, all-in by the Turn, but ran into top trips. "Aces" says Compo, tabling his hand for all to see, "trips" says pretty Lady, & chips are passed towards her. Suddenly I notice he's caught a straight, & say "err, he has the Straight", & the Pot is then passed to him. Sadly, Pretty Lady ain't too happy with me, & after a venting her wrath on all & sundry, it all went a but sullen & moody.

I'd have said the same if it were the other way round, but she was not gonna forgive me. Ah well, such is life.

Up early on the morrow, collect Chili, & thence to Blackpool for their splendid £300-er, with 15k Chips.

If Compo had tabled his hand then surely the dealer should have spotted the winning hand and passed the chips directly to him and you wouldn't have needed to speak. As they say Cards Speak regardless of what hand Compo was claiming he had.

[celtic]

You done nothing wrong here TJ. Have seen this happen loads of times, at the end of the day the cards speak regardless of what he declares. Obv got the hump cos she lost the pot.

[Card_Shark]

After observing the number of people that walk out of the toilets without washing hands, I have gone right off handshakes in card rooms, as well as eating anything at the table.

Is there a 100% correlation between a feeble handshake and depth of character?

No, nowhere near

I agree a feeble hand shake does not reflect someone's depth of character, however i personally feel a little disrespected when i receive a limp wristed, cold clammy lettuce leaf style hand shake in return. At best it leaves me with a negative impression of the person, Is it just me or does anyone else feel this way?

[MANTIS01]

"Urine excreted by healthy kidneys is sterile".....so aren't people who don't wash their hands performing a valuable service in the fight against the spread of disease?

Also why is it that in poker your verbal declaration is binding on every street, but not at showdown. In Compo's hand he declares "Aces" at showdown, but is not held to that declaration, whereas on other streets any declaration is binding whether it is a mistake or not.

[77dave]

Cards should be on there back at showdown

and what cant speak cant lie