Vegas & The Aftermath - Diary

[MANTIS01]

I would like to offer a few words about Dwain Chambers, because I think the guy deserves a break.

This week the British media have vilified two figures in equal measures. Robert Mugabe and Dwain Chambers. This is nuts because one is akin to Adolf Hitler and the other cheated a bit at running races. Now Chambers was stupid, and I'm sure he knows that more than anyone else. But people DO make mistakes in life...and I think it's important how you react to your mistakes, because it reveals character.

Sprinting is rife with cheats, in fact it has often been said that clean sprinters are in the minority. So Chambers was involved in a sport where performance enhancement was commonplace and when taking your place on the starting line you KNEW many of the other competitors were enhancing their performance with cutting edge "science". Following advice from trainers and mentors, including Linford Christie (his mentor and a drug cheat himself) he choose to go down the wrong road. I don't condone his decision but I do accept that it is a trap that thousands of young athletes have fallen into over the years.

He committed a crime against the SPORT and was punished according to the rules of the governing body. He was stripped of his medals, banned from the track, shunned by his team mates, and publically humiliated. Fair enough.

But when he returns from serving his ban he runs a clean 6.54s and wins silver in the World Indoor Championships. Respect goes to him for that. He made a mistake, he regrets it, he wants to rectify it, he wants to start a new chapter, he wants a positive reaction to it. But not in this country he can't, because we still want to vilify and humiliate him, and block his way back into the sport. Fair enough you might say.

But we are mighty inconsistent with our vilification of people. Mike Tyson RAPED a woman but is welcomed back to boxing, he then BIT OFF Evander Holyfield's ear....before being welcomed back to boxing. Linford Christie, serving a lifetime Olympic ban, was asked to carry the Olympic torch by the Lord Mayor of London?? The Olympics themselves are being held in China??

I could quote thousands of examples of sporting or famous people who have been allowed a fresh start after a mistake. My God, Bill Clinton had his dick sucked-off in the White House while his Mrs. was down the hall, and then lied about it to the American public in his infamous "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" speech. This event increased his popularity immensely.

So you are forgiven for rape in this world, you are forgiven for lying, you are forgiven (if not applauded) for cheating on your wife, but you are completely vilified and treated as scum for life if you cheat when playing sport. It is a crazy world imo.

Chambers is now being pummelled, targeted, stamped on and spat at by 20st gorillas in a sport he knows nothing about because he wants to provide for his family. He wants a fresh start and I for one am prepared to give him one.

[AndrewT]

As gruesome as it must have been, at round about the point where she got freed by the heroic members of the public, given her boyfriends' recent track record (excuse the pun) if I had been in her boots (sorry must be bad pun day)  I would put more stock in the opinion of the random member of public that had just saved me.

You missed one.

[AndrewT]

The thing that people are missing about the Dwain Chambers thing is that athletics (particularly sprinting) is dying as a sport - everyone assumes they're all on drugs. The British Olympic Association is trying to send the message that if you take drugs and get caught, that's it - you're out forever. No London 2012 for you. London 2012 must be spotlessly clean.

Therefore they have to make an example of Chambers, as a very high profile drug cheat. To send the message that 'hey, if you cheat don't worry, just take a couple of years out and you'll be welcomed back with open arms' would lead to more athletes taking a chance with the drugs.

Mike Tyson isn't an appropriate comparison to draw, because heavyweight boxing is such a farce it barely registers as a proper sport any more - money and bums on seats ride roughshod over any principles.

[tikay]

Interesting - fascinating - Post by Mantis, putting some perspective on Chambers.

But it assumes that we, the public, have forgiven Christie (I have not, & the Lord Mayor admitted it was a mistake), Clinton (not forgiven), Tyson (ditto) & so on.

But Chambers ran a "clean" 6.54? I think not. He used steroids & drugs & all sorts to enhance his body & muscle structure in his heyday , & there is a residual benefit from that which he still retains. I just can't accept that we have some duty here to forgive. The fact that half the sprinters were - some say - on drugs makes no difference - it's still wrong. Do you "nip" because lots of others do? - of course you don't, because you know it's wrong, & you are a grown-up.

He was blessed with a superb athletic body, which was his Passport to fame & glory & riches, but he got greedy. I'm afraid you only get one shot at some things in life, he yielded to temptation, took the easy route, cheating, & the bill is life. That's just the way it is - or at least, the way I see it.

The bit I don't get is that he now mixes with, & expects warm treatment from, those he cheated. How on earth does he look them in the eye? Has he no shame?

If he can make a genuine living without utilising his artificially enhanced body, good luck to him. But in sport, he'll always be a cheat in my book.

[kinboshi]

Chambers is now being pummelled, targeted, stamped on and spat at by 20st gorillas in a sport he knows nothing about because he wants to provide for his family. He wants a fresh start and I for one am prepared to give him one.

Bit of a slur on rugby league there. 

[kinboshi]

Chambers can go and get a job doing something useful.  Why does he have to be given a second chance in sport?  He doesn't in my book.

[tikay]

I had a day off today, it was like when I first retired, just lovely, & relaxing.

So I dropped off at Tom's place on the way home, & had a lovely 2 hours with him. He's been on his own all week, as Mrs Red is away. She booked a holiday in an Online Auction & she went with three Daughters & 6 grandkids - imagine that! And where did she go? Inglemells. In a caravan. Coals to Newcastle?

Kizzy greeted my car by yapping like mad, but when I got out, she went all funny She lay flat on the floor in front of me, head bowed, tail giving that almost guilty mini-wag.. Tom - oh how I envy his understanding of animal body language - says that was a submissive posture, as she knew me. Not many girls greet me that way.

The Pony has moved on, but he has three horses, & I tried to "judge" their quality, based on what Red taught us in that Black Colt story. I identified most of the correct components of good stock, but mostly in the wrong order. Tom said I had learned well, & gave me 3 out of 100. I was amazed to see how small their ears were - that's a good thing apparently. They had their winters coat on, & it had been pouring with rain, so they looked a bit bedraggled. They shed their winter coat soon - the rooks & crows sit on them & pull it off, & use it to line their nests - & I'd like to go see them again when they have their summer coats on.

I saw the new Mobile too. Outwardly, it does not look much different - to me - but internally, it looks huge. But that's an optical illusion I gather, caused by some clever angled corner windows. He's fiffing & faffing about in it, taking down partitions, installing a study & Computer Room, new carpets, da de da, but it's reet grand. It began with 3 bedrooms & a bathroom I think, but gawd knows what it will end up with. The Kitchen is luxury, too, proper nice.

He's spening most of his days in the Utility Room. It's actually a Portakabin, fitted out with washing machines & suchlike, with a nice kitchen & table, & we had a lovely cuppa in there. Tom kept getting up & going out every 10 minutes, & I eventually asked why. It seems the Utility Room does not have enough windows, & he becomes mentally & physically uncomfortable if he cannot see in certain directions. It's that thing where he likes to pick the prime spot, the "backs to the wall" spot, where he can survey comings & goings, & the Utility Room denies him that. But the new Mobile is chock-a-block full of windows, facing every which way.

The birdsong was glorious, I could hear 6 or 7 different birds singing away happily in the trees & hedgerows, Kizzy was scatting about, the horses were grazing happily. I think birds & animals are always happy.

Tom's teeth? I could not even see they were missing, not at all, but his speech is affected slightly, like a man without dentures in, but that apart, you'd never know.

He had a pile of washing-up to do before Mrs Red arrives back tonight, so I thgought I'd best depart, before I got roped in.

A sleet shower blasted in as I left, & the temp was 3C. By the time I reached the M1 - maybe 5 miles away - the sun was shining & the temp was 8C. I adore our variable weather.

A lovely 2 hours.

[DUNK619]

Chambers is now being pummelled, targeted, stamped on and spat at by 20st gorillas in a sport he knows nothing about because he wants to provide for his family. He wants a fresh start and I for one am prepared to give him one.

Bit of a slur on rugby league there. 

20 stone athletes who are big strong and quick through hard work and dtermination not performance enhancing drugs

[MANTIS01]

Posted by: AndrewT

Therefore they have to make an example of Chambers

Well this is the thing that is annoying me Andrew. Uk Athletics has a duty to govern the sport in this country and have set out clear regulations when it comes to doping. Dwain Champers served the appropriate ban according to these regulations, but now they want to victimise him by extending or altering his punishment after the event, to fulfill another agenda. I don't think that's fair. If they feel the sanctions aren't appropriate they should change them. I don't think it is appropriate to victimise Dwain Chambers after the event because the games are coming.

If they were REALLY forward-thinking they would use him. He could tour schools/athletics clubs and tell the young and impressionable about how much he gravely regrets this mistake and advise them to take the right path. But that would be forward-thinking.

I agree with Tikay that we do not have a duty as people to forgive, it's your own personal choice. In fact his lifelong punishment for cheating will be the shadow that follows him around, and I'm sure he expects that. But people who govern can't just continue to vilify someone after they have served the punishment issued to them. Dwain Chambers WAS a drug cheat, but I don't think he's a drug cheat NOW. I think people are capable of changing for the better and we should encourage that change and use it to help others.

Indeed, as people, we do not have to forgive, and we can certainly tar people with their crimes for ever if it suits us.

Posted by: tikay

nick a couple of cars, & we'd all pile in.

But then Tikay would be a car thief for the rest of his life.

We do things when young, stupid, and influenced. Then we change....if we are allowed to.

[RED-DOG]

Bit of a slur on rugby league there. 

These days I tend to thlur more on thwimming.

[tikay]

Posted by: AndrewT

Therefore they have to make an example of Chambers

Well this is the thing that is annoying me Andrew. Uk Athletics has a duty to govern the sport in this country and have set out clear regulations when it comes to doping. Dwain Champers served the appropriate ban according to these regulations, but now they want to victimise him by extending or altering his punishment after the event, to fulfill another agenda. I don't think that's fair. If they feel the sanctions aren't appropriate they should change them. I don't think it is appropriate to victimise Dwain Chambers after the event because the games are coming.

If they were REALLY forward-thinking they would use him. He could tour schools/athletics clubs and tell the young and impressionable about how much he gravely regrets this mistake and advise them to take the right path. But that would be forward-thinking.

I agree with Tikay that we do not have a duty as people to forgive, it's your own personal choice. In fact his lifelong punishment for cheating will be the shadow that follows him around, and I'm sure he expects that. But people who govern can't just continue to vilify someone after they have served the punishment issued to them. Dwain Chambers WAS a drug cheat, but I don't think he's a drug cheat NOW. I think people are capable of changing for the better and we should encourage that change and use it to help others.

Indeed, as people, we do not have to forgive, and we can certainly tar people with their crimes for ever if it suits us.

Posted by: tikay

nick a couple of cars, & we'd all pile in.

But then Tikay would be a car thief for the rest of his life.

We do things when young, stupid, and influenced. Then we change....if we are allowed to.

Great Post Mantis. My mind does not want to agree with you, but I can see your point, & I love a good debate.

I am a car thief - nothing can change that. Or an accessory to car theft, for sure. I have, in my life, tried to atone for my youthful wrongdoing, but I have not put my car thieft knowledge to use to better myself financially, or continued to benefit from it, or tried to. And I am remorseful for that, & other daft things I did. Chambers is still benefitting from his drug-enhanced body, & I see little by way of remorse.

The point about the Governing Body is fair dues - they got it wrong, badly wrong. If they bend the Rules to get him out of Athletics, that's fine by me. And my double standards!

Interesting that Mr Chambers stirs up so much passion, whilst there seems to be little interest in the fate of that poor girl, Shannon Matthews. It's a strange world we inhabit.

[Acidmouse]

I hope if he does play a game for cas (which I highly doubt) its on TV, so I can watch him getting mashed and absolutely pummelled.


League is such a high impact sport he will be eaten alive.

[ifm]

 Dwain Champers served the appropriate ban according to these regulations, but now they want to victimise him by extending or altering his punishment after the event, to fulfill another agenda.

He is banned for life from the Olympics..........

[Woodsey]

Interesting - fascinating - Post by Mantis, putting some perspective on Chambers.

But it assumes that we, the public, have forgiven Christie (I have not, & the Lord Mayor admitted it was a mistake), Clinton (not forgiven), Tyson (ditto) & so on.

But Chambers ran a "clean" 6.54? I think not. He used steroids & drugs & all sorts to enhance his body & muscle structure in his heyday , & there is a residual benefit from that which he still retains. I just can't accept that we have some duty here to forgive. The fact that half the sprinters were - some say - on drugs makes no difference - it's still wrong. Do you "nip" because lots of others do? - of course you don't, because you know it's wrong, & you are a grown-up.

He was blessed with a superb athletic body, which was his Passport to fame & glory & riches, but he got greedy. I'm afraid you only get one shot at some things in life, he yielded to temptation, took the easy route, cheating, & the bill is life. That's just the way it is - or at least, the way I see it.

The bit I don't get is that he now mixes with, & expects warm treatment from, those he cheated. How on earth does he look them in the eye? Has he no shame?

If he can make a genuine living without utilising his artificially enhanced body, good luck to him. But in sport, he'll always be a cheat in my book.

I do think he's had it a bit tougher than others who have been caught to be fair. The reason he is getting it tougher is because he actually admitted taking drugs to enhance his performance, whereas others have denied everything and claimed to have taken something unwittingly. I can't separate the two unfortunately scenario's unfortunately, but I don't think he deserves to get a harder time than others who have just denied everthing. Greg Rusedski, Carl Myerscough (shot putter) and Janine Whitlock (pole vaulter) were all welcomed back, so I think its a bit unfair on Dwain.

I studied drugs in sport at Uni, and the concensus from all the experts around the world is that there is no direct residual effect after being off drugs for 2 years (and probably well before that) all extra muscle mass etc is lost pretty quickly after coming off the drugs. I've seen the effects of drug taking on friends of mine and its pretty scary how quickly extra muscle mass is lost once you come off drugs. The one area that could have questionable longer term benefits is the issue of 'muscle memory', whenever you train for a particular sport the muscle 'remembers' whatever activity it is that you have practiced. In theory when on drugs your legs should be able to turn over quicker and with more power because of the extra muscle gained from the drugs. However when you have stopped taking the drugs and your body has returned to its previous state it is possible that the leg muscles have 'remembered' how to turn over quickly and how to run faster than was previously possible when you were clean. So its this point that the experts are debating at the moment...........

[MANTIS01]

He is banned for life from the Olympics..........

True Ian, but not from other competitions. FWIW I think drugs offences should mean a lifetime ban from ALL competitions, but this is currently not the case. However, this is the fate they want for Chambers anyway, and that's my point. They want to move the goalposts. I also object to the title 'drug-cheating scum' that I have read in the media. It is possible to make a mistake and not be scum.

What about Christine Ohuruogo? Scum?

Good Post Woodsey