Vegas & The Aftermath - Diary

[AndrewT]

I wonder how long Maggie Thatcher was referred to as 'the first woman PM'?

[Colchester Kev]

I wonder how long Maggie Thatcher was referred to as 'the first woman PM'?

Not as long as she will be called "The only Woman PM" hopefully

[kinboshi]

I wonder how long Maggie Thatcher was referred to as 'the first woman PM'?

Not as long as she will be called "The only Woman PM" hopefully

 


Is Ryan Giggs constantly referred to as being 1/4 black?  When does someone stop being black and become mixed race, when are they considered white?  What about those of Indian descent?  What about those with Hispanic ancestry? We're all a cocktail of different 'colours'. 

I'm pretty sure he's the first President of the US whose middle name is Hussein though.

[Rod Paradise]

The term "African American" does bug me a little too as I find it a rather pretentious euphemism.It seems to be used in the same way that people use the word perspiration instead of sweat.

To be fair it is used by others to include their origins, Irish American, Italian American being 2. I kind of prefer it to the "cricket test" type expectation we have here that immigrants and their descendants become British.

Yeah dude, I don't mind that either. But when you're talking about the most powerful man in the world then I like complete neutrality. To put him into the subset of Americans that have African origins is just an obstacle to impartiality imo. He should just be American for the purposes of his job.

How can you expect neutrality out of the leader of a country? They put JFK in the subset of Catholic americans, he was still pretty popular. I find a president from a minority to be a refreshing change & while it's overdue, I've got to applaud the americans for it.

You're missing my point. I also think it's refreshing and good. But I can arrive at the fact he is black under my own steam, so can you, so can everyone. So why keep telling us he's the black president if colour isn't an issue?

Think I've got your point now, but I think everyone knows this is just a big step towards the end of colour being an issue (and the more KKK members who self-combust in anger at the constant reminders the better IMO ).

[WarBwastard]

Mantis, everyone in America has a duel nationality really.  They're a nation of immigrants, that's why the country was founded in the first place.  Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, Polish-Americans etc etc.  The reason they keep mentioning that Barack Obama is the first African-American President is obviously because their history is steeped in the slavery of Africans.  The Irish weren't slaves, neither were ginger haired people or women (unless they were African) or Catholics etc etc.   While they're celebrating the fact that this is progressive and obviously an incredible moment for all those people who were involved in the civil rights movement, I'm pretty sure America isn't asking for a cookie or a medal from the world because they finally voted in a black man.  I'm pretty sure while they are celebrating, they're celebrating because they finally have a leader with some intelligence and a real man of the world who has an appreciation of the value of human life, not just because they're proud f themselves for voting in someone who wasn't white and 50 years old....I think they're still ashamed of their past and fully aware that this doesn't erase the past - particularly when they had to wait until the country was in it's worse state for a century before they were prepared to ignore a Presidential candidates ethnicity before they voted for him and his opponent was 120 years old too.  I doubt anyone in America is under any illusions that race isn't an issue in parts of their society still, but their constant referral to Obama as an African--American is down to the historical connotations not because he's not considered a 'real' American.   

[kinboshi]

Mantis, everyone in America has a duel nationality really.  They're a nation of immigrants, that's why the country was founded in the first place.  Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, Polish-Americans etc etc.  The reason they keep mentioning that Barack Obama is the first African-American President is obviously because their history is steeped in the slavery of Africans.  The Irish weren't slaves, neither were ginger haired people or women (unless they were African) or Catholics etc etc.   While they're celebrating the fact that this is progressive and obviously an incredible moment for all those people who were involved in the civil rights movement, I'm pretty sure America isn't asking for a cookie or a medal from the world because they finally voted in a black man.  I'm pretty sure while they are celebrating, they're celebrating because they finally have a leader with some intelligence and a real man of the world who has an appreciation of the value of human life, not just because they're proud f themselves for voting in someone who wasn't white and 50 years old....I think they're still ashamed of their past and fully aware that this doesn't erase the past - particularly when they had to wait until the country was in it's worse state for a century before they were prepared to ignore a Presidential candidates ethnicity before they voted for him and his opponent was 120 years old too.  I doubt anyone in America is under any illusions that race isn't an issue in parts of their society still, but their constant referral to Obama as an African--American is down to the historical connotations not because he's not considered a 'real' American.   

Is it 'cause he is black?

[Geo the Sarge]

Mantis, everyone in America has a duel nationality really.  They're a nation of immigrants, that's why the country was founded in the first place.  Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, Polish-Americans etc etc.  The reason they keep mentioning that Barack Obama is the first African-American President is obviously because their history is steeped in the slavery of Africans.  The Irish weren't slaves, neither were ginger haired people or women (unless they were African) or Catholics etc etc.   While they're celebrating the fact that this is progressive and obviously an incredible moment for all those people who were involved in the civil rights movement, I'm pretty sure America isn't asking for a cookie or a medal from the world because they finally voted in a black man.  I'm pretty sure while they are celebrating, they're celebrating because they finally have a leader with some intelligence and a real man of the world who has an appreciation of the value of human life, not just because they're proud f themselves for voting in someone who wasn't white and 50 years old....I think they're still ashamed of their past and fully aware that this doesn't erase the past - particularly when they had to wait until the country was in it's worse state for a century before they were prepared to ignore a Presidential candidates ethnicity before they voted for him and his opponent was 120 years old too.  I doubt anyone in America is under any illusions that race isn't an issue in parts of their society still, but their constant referral to Obama as an African--American is down to the historical connotations not because he's not considered a 'real' American.   

Good post sir and I believe this is what Laxie, Wardonkey and Rod have been saying also.

As was also said earlier, we have been fortunate here in Britain that we have very little experience of the slavery and subsequent segregation of the blacks that has been such a burden on American history.

I too think that this is a huge step, however have always been a bit surprised that they have yet to classify themselves purely as Americans. I posted on here some time back as to my puzzlement as to why after all these years they still stick to the African/Italian/Irish American themes.

It hasn't only been the white large corporate monopoly of the Presidency over the years, I remember reading an article a few years back that noted that the Presidency had actually stayed within a certain 3 or 4 families for a considerable time.

I say good luck to him, however am rueful of the thought of what will happen should some nutter attempt or be able to assasinate him, the result I believe will be utter carnage.

Geo

[WarBwastard]

On the theme of inaugurations, Bush's was held under a slightly different environment

[WarBwastard]

Mantis, everyone in America has a duel nationality really.  They're a nation of immigrants, that's why the country was founded in the first place.  Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, Polish-Americans etc etc.  The reason they keep mentioning that Barack Obama is the first African-American President is obviously because their history is steeped in the slavery of Africans.  The Irish weren't slaves, neither were ginger haired people or women (unless they were African) or Catholics etc etc.   While they're celebrating the fact that this is progressive and obviously an incredible moment for all those people who were involved in the civil rights movement, I'm pretty sure America isn't asking for a cookie or a medal from the world because they finally voted in a black man.  I'm pretty sure while they are celebrating, they're celebrating because they finally have a leader with some intelligence and a real man of the world who has an appreciation of the value of human life, not just because they're proud f themselves for voting in someone who wasn't white and 50 years old....I think they're still ashamed of their past and fully aware that this doesn't erase the past - particularly when they had to wait until the country was in it's worse state for a century before they were prepared to ignore a Presidential candidates ethnicity before they voted for him and his opponent was 120 years old too.  I doubt anyone in America is under any illusions that race isn't an issue in parts of their society still, but their constant referral to Obama as an African--American is down to the historical connotations not because he's not considered a 'real' American.   

Good post sir and I believe this is what Laxie, Wardonkey and Rod have been saying also.

As was also said earlier, we have been fortunate here in Britain that we have very little experience of the slavery and subsequent segregation of the blacks that has been such a burden on American history.

I too think that this is a huge step, however have always been a bit surprised that they have yet to classify themselves purely as Americans. I posted on here some time back as to my puzzlement as to why after all these years they still stick to the African/Italian/Irish American themes.

It hasn't only been the white large corporate monopoly of the Presidency over the years, I remember reading an article a few years back that noted that the Presidency had actually stayed within a certain 3 or 4 families for a considerable time.

I say good luck to him, however am rueful of the thought of what will happen should some nutter attempt or be able to assasinate him, the result I believe will be utter carnage.

Geo

I think it's because they're proud of their heritage and don't want to forget where they came from or where the previous generations of their families came from.

[MANTIS01]

Mantis, everyone in America has a duel nationality really.  They're a nation of immigrants, that's why the country was founded in the first place.  Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, Polish-Americans etc etc.  The reason they keep mentioning that Barack Obama is the first African-American President is obviously because their history is steeped in the slavery of Africans.  The Irish weren't slaves, neither were ginger haired people or women (unless they were African) or Catholics etc etc.   While they're celebrating the fact that this is progressive and obviously an incredible moment for all those people who were involved in the civil rights movement, I'm pretty sure America isn't asking for a cookie or a medal from the world because they finally voted in a black man.  I'm pretty sure while they are celebrating, they're celebrating because they finally have a leader with some intelligence and a real man of the world who has an appreciation of the value of human life, not just because they're proud f themselves for voting in someone who wasn't white and 50 years old....I think they're still ashamed of their past and fully aware that this doesn't erase the past - particularly when they had to wait until the country was in it's worse state for a century before they were prepared to ignore a Presidential candidates ethnicity before they voted for him and his opponent was 120 years old too.  I doubt anyone in America is under any illusions that race isn't an issue in parts of their society still, but their constant referral to Obama as an African--American is down to the historical connotations not because he's not considered a 'real' American.   

OK, let's break it down another way. We've got this whole war on terror thing going on at the moment, this is where the major problems and the balance of power are. We are seeing the evidence of this in Israel, Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran etc. The way America sells it's stance to the world is kinda a good vs evil, freedom vs tyranny type affair so they get support. I reckon a lot of people see the conflict as the west vs Muslims. So if America can trumpet the fact they have a black president they show they were the goodies all along and thus get that support. World opinion and those marginal gulf states is where all the power is. So it's a real foreign policy marketing coup that Obama is black. Do we really think America wont ask for a cookie from the world? I bet they will ask for a whole jar of cookies from the world. If Obama's term is beneficial to black people then fair play, but I would like it to be because he was a good president and a good man rather than cos he is black.

[Geo the Sarge]

Mantis, everyone in America has a duel nationality really.  They're a nation of immigrants, that's why the country was founded in the first place.  Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, Polish-Americans etc etc.  The reason they keep mentioning that Barack Obama is the first African-American President is obviously because their history is steeped in the slavery of Africans.  The Irish weren't slaves, neither were ginger haired people or women (unless they were African) or Catholics etc etc.   While they're celebrating the fact that this is progressive and obviously an incredible moment for all those people who were involved in the civil rights movement, I'm pretty sure America isn't asking for a cookie or a medal from the world because they finally voted in a black man.  I'm pretty sure while they are celebrating, they're celebrating because they finally have a leader with some intelligence and a real man of the world who has an appreciation of the value of human life, not just because they're proud f themselves for voting in someone who wasn't white and 50 years old....I think they're still ashamed of their past and fully aware that this doesn't erase the past - particularly when they had to wait until the country was in it's worse state for a century before they were prepared to ignore a Presidential candidates ethnicity before they voted for him and his opponent was 120 years old too.  I doubt anyone in America is under any illusions that race isn't an issue in parts of their society still, but their constant referral to Obama as an African--American is down to the historical connotations not because he's not considered a 'real' American.   

OK, let's break it down another way. We've got this whole war on terror thing going on at the moment, this is where the major problems and the balance of power are. We are seeing the evidence of this in Israel, Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran etc. The way America sells it's stance to the world is kinda a good vs evil, freedom vs tyranny type affair so they get support. I reckon a lot of people see the conflict as the west vs Muslims. So if America can trumpet the fact they have a black president they show they were the goodies all along and thus get that support. World opinion and those marginal gulf states is where all the power is. So it's a real foreign policy marketing coup that Obama is black. Do we really think America wont ask for a cookie from the world? I bet they will ask for a whole jar of cookies from the world. If Obama's term is beneficial to black people then fair play, but I would like it to be because he was a good president and a good man rather than cos he is black.

Haven't you part answered your own initial query?

I still believe that it's equally as important to the American people themselves for reasons stated by a few already.

Geo

[Jon MW]

Mantis, everyone in America has a duel nationality really.  They're a nation of immigrants, that's why the country was founded in the first place.  Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, Polish-Americans etc etc.  The reason they keep mentioning that Barack Obama is the first African-American President is obviously because their history is steeped in the slavery of Africans.  The Irish weren't slaves, neither were ginger haired people or women (unless they were African) or Catholics etc etc.   While they're celebrating the fact that this is progressive and obviously an incredible moment for all those people who were involved in the civil rights movement, I'm pretty sure America isn't asking for a cookie or a medal from the world because they finally voted in a black man.  I'm pretty sure while they are celebrating, they're celebrating because they finally have a leader with some intelligence and a real man of the world who has an appreciation of the value of human life, not just because they're proud f themselves for voting in someone who wasn't white and 50 years old....I think they're still ashamed of their past and fully aware that this doesn't erase the past - particularly when they had to wait until the country was in it's worse state for a century before they were prepared to ignore a Presidential candidates ethnicity before they voted for him and his opponent was 120 years old too.  I doubt anyone in America is under any illusions that race isn't an issue in parts of their society still, but their constant referral to Obama as an African--American is down to the historical connotations not because he's not considered a 'real' American.   

Good post sir and I believe this is what Laxie, Wardonkey and Rod have been saying also.

As was also said earlier, we have been fortunate here in Britain that we have very little experience of the slavery and subsequent segregation of the blacks that has been such a burden on American history.

I too think that this is a huge step, however have always been a bit surprised that they have yet to classify themselves purely as Americans. I posted on here some time back as to my puzzlement as to why after all these years they still stick to the African/Italian/Irish American themes.

It hasn't only been the white large corporate monopoly of the Presidency over the years, I remember reading an article a few years back that noted that the Presidency had actually stayed within a certain 3 or 4 families for a considerable time.

I say good luck to him, however am rueful of the thought of what will happen should some nutter attempt or be able to assasinate him, the result I believe will be utter carnage.

Geo

I think it's because they're proud of their heritage and don't want to forget where they came from or where the previous generations of their families came from.

When African American is used in this context then fair enough, but the problem is that a lot of the time it's used because the (white) person commentating just doesn't want to use the word 'black' - that's when it's annoying.

[boldie]

Mantis, everyone in America has a duel nationality really.  They're a nation of immigrants, that's why the country was founded in the first place.  Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, Polish-Americans etc etc.  The reason they keep mentioning that Barack Obama is the first African-American President is obviously because their history is steeped in the slavery of Africans.  The Irish weren't slaves, neither were ginger haired people or women (unless they were African) or Catholics etc etc.   While they're celebrating the fact that this is progressive and obviously an incredible moment for all those people who were involved in the civil rights movement, I'm pretty sure America isn't asking for a cookie or a medal from the world because they finally voted in a black man.  I'm pretty sure while they are celebrating, they're celebrating because they finally have a leader with some intelligence and a real man of the world who has an appreciation of the value of human life, not just because they're proud f themselves for voting in someone who wasn't white and 50 years old....I think they're still ashamed of their past and fully aware that this doesn't erase the past - particularly when they had to wait until the country was in it's worse state for a century before they were prepared to ignore a Presidential candidates ethnicity before they voted for him and his opponent was 120 years old too.  I doubt anyone in America is under any illusions that race isn't an issue in parts of their society still, but their constant referral to Obama as an African--American is down to the historical connotations not because he's not considered a 'real' American.   

OK, let's break it down another way. We've got this whole war on terror thing going on at the moment, this is where the major problems and the balance of power are. We are seeing the evidence of this in Israel, Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran etc. The way America sells it's stance to the world is kinda a good vs evil, freedom vs tyranny type affair so they get support. I reckon a lot of people see the conflict as the west vs Muslims. So if America can trumpet the fact they have a black president they show they were the goodies all along and thus get that support. World opinion and those marginal gulf states is where all the power is. So it's a real foreign policy marketing coup that Obama is black. Do we really think America wont ask for a cookie from the world? I bet they will ask for a whole jar of cookies from the world. If Obama's term is beneficial to black people then fair play, but I would like it to be because he was a good president and a good man rather than cos he is black.

I am stunned that people are surprised by him being called "the first black president"...I am even more surprised that people don't understand why they are going on about it.
This is momentous; in a country where the majority of black people still live with racism. Where 50 or so years ago Black people couldn't sit at the front of a bus. There were riots when schools were desegregated.
This is a truly historic day for America and American politics.

Will he be judged as the first black president of the USA when he's done? Probably not, he will be judged by how he performed....but to now say that you don't understand why people "bang on about it" or even imply that it's a marketing ploy shows that you have no quite grasped just how big a deal this is for black people in the States.

[Geo the Sarge]

Mantis, everyone in America has a duel nationality really.  They're a nation of immigrants, that's why the country was founded in the first place.  Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, Polish-Americans etc etc.  The reason they keep mentioning that Barack Obama is the first African-American President is obviously because their history is steeped in the slavery of Africans.  The Irish weren't slaves, neither were ginger haired people or women (unless they were African) or Catholics etc etc.   While they're celebrating the fact that this is progressive and obviously an incredible moment for all those people who were involved in the civil rights movement, I'm pretty sure America isn't asking for a cookie or a medal from the world because they finally voted in a black man.  I'm pretty sure while they are celebrating, they're celebrating because they finally have a leader with some intelligence and a real man of the world who has an appreciation of the value of human life, not just because they're proud f themselves for voting in someone who wasn't white and 50 years old....I think they're still ashamed of their past and fully aware that this doesn't erase the past - particularly when they had to wait until the country was in it's worse state for a century before they were prepared to ignore a Presidential candidates ethnicity before they voted for him and his opponent was 120 years old too.  I doubt anyone in America is under any illusions that race isn't an issue in parts of their society still, but their constant referral to Obama as an African--American is down to the historical connotations not because he's not considered a 'real' American.   

Good post sir and I believe this is what Laxie, Wardonkey and Rod have been saying also.

As was also said earlier, we have been fortunate here in Britain that we have very little experience of the slavery and subsequent segregation of the blacks that has been such a burden on American history.

I too think that this is a huge step, however have always been a bit surprised that they have yet to classify themselves purely as Americans. I posted on here some time back as to my puzzlement as to why after all these years they still stick to the African/Italian/Irish American themes.

It hasn't only been the white large corporate monopoly of the Presidency over the years, I remember reading an article a few years back that noted that the Presidency had actually stayed within a certain 3 or 4 families for a considerable time.

I say good luck to him, however am rueful of the thought of what will happen should some nutter attempt or be able to assasinate him, the result I believe will be utter carnage.

Geo

I think it's because they're proud of their heritage and don't want to forget where they came from or where the previous generations of their families came from.

When African American is used in this context then fair enough, but the problem is that a lot of the time it's used because the (white) person commentating just doesn't want to use the word 'black' - that's when it's annoying.

It's also being used by black commentators

Geo

[Jon MW]

Mantis, everyone in America has a duel nationality really.  They're a nation of immigrants, that's why the country was founded in the first place.  Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, Polish-Americans etc etc.  The reason they keep mentioning that Barack Obama is the first African-American President is obviously because their history is steeped in the slavery of Africans.  The Irish weren't slaves, neither were ginger haired people or women (unless they were African) or Catholics etc etc.   While they're celebrating the fact that this is progressive and obviously an incredible moment for all those people who were involved in the civil rights movement, I'm pretty sure America isn't asking for a cookie or a medal from the world because they finally voted in a black man.  I'm pretty sure while they are celebrating, they're celebrating because they finally have a leader with some intelligence and a real man of the world who has an appreciation of the value of human life, not just because they're proud f themselves for voting in someone who wasn't white and 50 years old....I think they're still ashamed of their past and fully aware that this doesn't erase the past - particularly when they had to wait until the country was in it's worse state for a century before they were prepared to ignore a Presidential candidates ethnicity before they voted for him and his opponent was 120 years old too.  I doubt anyone in America is under any illusions that race isn't an issue in parts of their society still, but their constant referral to Obama as an African--American is down to the historical connotations not because he's not considered a 'real' American.   

Good post sir and I believe this is what Laxie, Wardonkey and Rod have been saying also.

As was also said earlier, we have been fortunate here in Britain that we have very little experience of the slavery and subsequent segregation of the blacks that has been such a burden on American history.

I too think that this is a huge step, however have always been a bit surprised that they have yet to classify themselves purely as Americans. I posted on here some time back as to my puzzlement as to why after all these years they still stick to the African/Italian/Irish American themes.

It hasn't only been the white large corporate monopoly of the Presidency over the years, I remember reading an article a few years back that noted that the Presidency had actually stayed within a certain 3 or 4 families for a considerable time.

I say good luck to him, however am rueful of the thought of what will happen should some nutter attempt or be able to assasinate him, the result I believe will be utter carnage.

Geo

I think it's because they're proud of their heritage and don't want to forget where they came from or where the previous generations of their families came from.

When African American is used in this context then fair enough, but the problem is that a lot of the time it's used because the (white) person commentating just doesn't want to use the word 'black' - that's when it's annoying.

It's also being used by black commentators

Geo

It's harder to work out which reason they're using the term for when they do it.

Just to be on the safe side I'll get annoyed at them too.