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Author Topic: David Singer eliminated because of a weak TD  (Read 6314 times)
Div
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« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2007, 06:27:17 PM »

I think singer got ul...I'm not saying his opponent was pulling a fast one, but having a blanket rule of no checking your phone at the table makes sense and I think the TD should have ruled in his favour.

Apparently they checked the security tapes, checked the guys phone, and confirmed it was impossible for him to have read any message.

you can tell he's an american just by looking at security tapes?


Humour aside...You can check the phone and see it takes a minimum of three key presses to access a new message, and check the tape and see he only made one key press.
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Bongo
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« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2007, 06:29:27 PM »

But you don't need to read a text or answer the phone to have information conveyed to you.
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« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2007, 06:30:49 PM »

But you don't need to read a text or answer the phone to have information conveyed to you.

Which is why they should have a better rule in place. 
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« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2007, 06:34:58 PM »

Your phone could play

 "she'll be coming round the mountain" if he's on a draw,

"baby-cakes" (sung by 3 of a kind) if he's got a set,

"touch me" by Sam Fox for a big pair

or "Gold" Spandau ballet for Top,Top...... TPTK.

 
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Jon MW
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« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2007, 06:41:01 PM »

The rule is slightly ambiguous because it is along the lines of if a player is on their mobile their hand is dead. It comes down to an interpretation of 'on'.

In the Razz tournament David Oppenheim was selecting music off his phone and the dealer mucked his hand for it (he wasn't happy). Later on he actually was texting someone and the dealer just gave him a warning and allowed him to continue, so it's down to interpretation.

I don't think anybody would go along with switching it off as being covered by this though, do you?

I can't be bothered to retype so thats largely just copied and posted what my response was in the live update
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« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2007, 06:45:12 PM »

Your phone could play

 "she'll be coming round the mountain" if he's on a draw,

"baby-cakes" (sung by 3 of a kind) if he's got a set,

"touch me" by Sam Fox for a big pair

or "Gold" Spandau ballet for Top,Top...... TPTK.

 

lol. here we go. there'll be another 10 of these.

It's the ACE OF SPADES, THE ACE OF SPADES.

As it was, the whole issue of the phone may have provoked a tell in itself. You can press a button to make it sound like it's ringing. The ultimate in angle-shooting. Press one button to make it ring, another to stop it, knowing that you can't get punished for doing that but knowing that your opponent may seek to get a ruling.....showing he has doesn't really want a call........genius!

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« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2007, 06:47:40 PM »

Clear angle shot.  Love to see his reaction if he hit a spade/4/5.
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doubleup
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« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2007, 06:53:32 PM »

But you don't need to read a text or answer the phone to have information conveyed to you.

You don't need a phone either - two coughs means call.  If I pick my nose it means fold.
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« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2007, 08:16:30 PM »

He didn't 'push the buttons' as such as take out the phone to turn it off. That was done I think as a courtesy to the rest of the table. If Singer had hit, this wouldn't have developed into a row.

The TD is a guy called Steve, who was also in charge of the Monte Carlo EPT final. He's someone who has the respect of all the players and certainly isn't weak.
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« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2007, 08:29:19 PM »

Getting someone to ring you when you should call for example...

I see what you did there... although that would assume someone within viewing distance could see the play, and could make the decision better than the player at the table. 

 

and if that were the case why are they standing on the rail letting someone else play?

If they are so good at reading people then they'd be playing in the tournament themselves as opposed to phoning their mates when they should call.

I think the TD made a good common sense decision here.

At the end of the day the rule is that you cannot use a mobile phone at the table. The guy simply stopped it from ringing.

He did not make/answer a phone call
He did not read/send a text message

So In my opinion he did not "use" his phone.

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« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2007, 08:36:05 PM »

Jesus..the guy turns his phone off and that's all. Noone can argue that he should be thrown out (unless his ring-tone was by the Spicegirls)

On a UK note...Friday at Stanley the computerised announcement asked everyone to turn their phones off and said "Use of a mobile phone is not allowed"...I saw 2 guys at my table on their mobiles having a (very trivial) conversation within 5 minutes of that announcement and of course nothing was done. Only a tenner rebuy obviously but it's a shame people like that don't have the decency to switch their phones off when they have been asked to. That's the thing that pisses me off about mobiles.
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« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2007, 09:05:25 PM »

From reading the above, it sounds like David Singer was angle-shooting by trying to get the other guys hand declared dead.
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« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2007, 10:12:58 PM »

What's the rule in the UK with regards to phone use at the table?  I bet there isn't a consistent rule is there - and each casino has its own version?

LOL, exactly, it's stupid.
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« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2007, 11:57:31 PM »

I have some sympathy with David Singer and don't believe it is an angle shoot.
Having played a number of the early wsop events it is clear that different floor persons and dealers imposed different rulings in the same situations.
This is so frustrating as a player. However, with regard to mobile phones, I found rulings to be standard during the first 2 weeks. On every single occasion a player had a mobile phone
in their hand when they also had cards, then their hand was declared dead. Everone was aware of the rule as it is was announced before every single tournament.
Unfortunately a situation came up which I feel makes a mockery of the floor people/TD's. With 11 players left in the $2500 event I was at a table where the button moved all in.
The small blind dwelled for 5 minutes during which the button took out his phone and started to punch buttons for a few minutes. The small blind muttered `is his hand dead', shook his head and folded.
The big blind did likewise. Because this was such a crucial stage of the tournament 2 floorpeople where watching events. After the hand was over I asked the dealer and the floorstaff why the all in player's
hand was not declared dead.They all stated that they were not aware the guy was on the phone and that he did not answer a call. I and all the other players laughed in amazement. His hand should clearly have been declared dead which would have been a terrible way to end the tournament but the guy did the most stupid thing imaginable. I may be seen as a trouble causer and angle shooter by questioning how the situation was handled but on another occasion someone will have their hand correctly ruled as dead. This inconsistency in the rules when deep in a tournament is not common sense it is total fudging and a lack of respect for the tournament and players. As a player all we ask for is consistency in decisions at all times of a tournament.
Most of this can be achieved by the correct training of floor staff and dealers by tournament directors/officials. In my experience only the Bellagio card room here in Vegas has achieved this to any sort
of reasonable standard.
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snoopy1239
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« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2007, 12:09:04 AM »

Nice post. Personally, if it was me, I wouldn't have complained as that's not how I want to stay in the competition. However, it shouldn't be my responsibility as a player, the dealer, and subsequently the tournament director, should be making the observation and ruling and maintaining the consistency of which you speak.

From what I understand, Dave Singer's still moaning about it and asking for a refund or to be put in Day 1D. That's what you get when you mess with a lawyer.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2007, 12:39:52 AM by snoopy1239 » Logged
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