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Author Topic: Was there a better play, or is this non-gettoffable?  (Read 3331 times)
tikay
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« on: August 21, 2007, 02:03:03 PM »


The GBPT in Leeds at the weekend, £500 entry, we are down to about 6 or 7 tables, we are trundling along quietly, with no problems.

Average is maybe 18k, I have about 14k or 15kk, blinds are 200-400 with a 25 ante. Life is good.

Jon "skalie" Kalmar has beern very "busy", & I'm hopeful we can get some chips from him. He knows I am weak passive, & he will DEFFO try & exploit it.

I find A-A, it;'s just the two Blinds, plus Jon, who's limped UTG. Odd, that, he could have a huge hand here. Well let's hope he has, eh?

I make it 2k to go, both blinds let go, Jon, to my great interest, just calls. UTG. I was half-expecting a check-raise, but Jon knows I'm super-tight, & may be trapping with a Paint Pair.

We see this flop.

 

Jon checks, I chose to bet out & kill the hand. I'm not to know he's holding  .

So I bet 6k, a bit above the pot, I don't want Jon messing about with me here. He moves all-in. Uh-oh? I have 7k behind, more than enough to Pass. But I know Jon knows this. He could have KK, AQ, JJ. TT, AK, or sfa, & is just bullying me.

I call with a heavy heart, "you got the set Jon?" I ask after calling, "yup" he replies. Poo. I half knew, but equally, I'm known to be easily pushed off hands, & I think this it's possible may be the case here.

So was there a better way to play this. If I check the flop (surely a bad thing), does he bet the Turn, & if so, what do I do then? Pass? That'd be a dificult thing. Call? RR?

I'm really trying to see if we had a better option here, but I don't think we did.

Of course, I did nothing wrong until I called Jon's post-flop check-Raise all-in, & that was the only mistake (I think), not to let go, but I've explained my reasoning there.

I did NOT have to call the Check-Raise, but that apart, were there better ways of playing this?
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matt674
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« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2007, 02:10:07 PM »

are you ever folding aces on a raggy rainbow flop?

p.s.
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TheChipPrince
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« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2007, 02:14:42 PM »


is the 6K bet a little too big? More than the pot? Perhaps 4K and u may have had an easier fold, tough one...
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matt674
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« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2007, 02:29:01 PM »

Perhaps 4K and u may have had an easier fold

Huh?

AA on a Q43 rainbow flop against an agressive opponent? sorry but i doubt there's one person who could put their hand on their heart and say they fold in this spot.

I reckon Tikay's been about on the tournament circuit long enough and is experienced enough to know the answer to the question before he's even asked it.

There may possibly be a justifiable arguement (just!!) if you were on the bubble and there were 3 or 4 shorter stacks than you who would bust before you make the money but you are at least 5 tables off the money, i don't believe that anyone is passing in this spot.
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tikay
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« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2007, 02:40:54 PM »


is the 6K bet a little too big? More than the pot? Perhaps 4K and u may have had an easier fold, tough one...

True, but if I I bet "weak", he can then do his "I'll bully now, he's weak" & then what do I do? I'm back where I started, unless I'm good enough to Pass here. And I CAN Pass here, but I just thought Jon may be at it, or at least be behind. The set entered my thinking too, but I chose to disregard.
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tikay
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« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2007, 02:42:54 PM »

are you ever folding aces on a raggy rainbow flop?

p.s.

You can't have the 50p - I was "comped" into the Tourney, so hardly a bad-beat, as I was freerolling.

50p notion REJECTED. Wink
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« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2007, 02:50:19 PM »

Perhaps 4K and u may have had an easier fold

Huh?

AA on a Q43 rainbow flop against an agressive opponent? sorry but i doubt there's one person who could put their hand on their heart and say they fold in this spot.

I reckon Tikay's been about on the tournament circuit long enough and is experienced enough to know the answer to the question before he's even asked it.

There may possibly be a justifiable arguement (just!!) if you were on the bubble and there were 3 or 4 shorter stacks than you who would bust before you make the money but you are at least 5 tables off the money, i don't believe that anyone is passing in this spot.



Not saying I'd fold, I would call, but maybe you get the same info for 4K instead of 6K, making it easier to fold if your uneasy with the call...

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MANTIS01
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« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2007, 02:52:35 PM »

NO WAY OUT!

Unless you are holding the absolute nuts there is always a chance you could be beat.

Skalie has called a 2k raise from a tight opponent oop with a small pp (final-tabling at the WSOP must give you the freedom of a cavalier attitude methinks) and has got lucky.

Really really don't like the size of the flop bet. The flop is absolutely ideal for bullets so surely you want to be opening the door FOR your opponent to be "messing" about with you...not wanting to avoid such an eventuality? So I put in a bet of about half to two thirds of the pot and cross my fingers for a re-raise. Definitely want all the chips in here...Pocket Kings or A-Q fit the action perfectly...but your over-bet which may be interpreted as weakness could suggest other holdings are possible. WORSE case scenario is you are facing a set, but only if you are an utter pessimist, but hey you still have Aces, running queens or a 2-5 straight combo to hope for if, on the other hand, you are an eternal optimist!

 
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tikay
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« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2007, 02:59:09 PM »

NO WAY OUT!

Unless you are holding the absolute nuts there is always a chance you could be beat.

Skalie has called a 2k raise from a tight opponent oop with a small pp (final-tabling at the WSOP must give you the freedom of a cavalier attitude methinks) and has got lucky.

Really really don't like the size of the flop bet. The flop is absolutely ideal for bullets so surely you want to be opening the door FOR your opponent to be "messing" about with you...not wanting to avoid such an eventuality? So I put in a bet of about half to two thirds of the pot and cross my fingers for a re-raise. Definitely want all the chips in here...Pocket Kings or A-Q fit the action perfectly...but your over-bet which may be interpreted as weakness could suggest other holdings are possible. WORSE case scenario is you are facing a set, but only if you are an utter pessimist, but hey you still have Aces, running queens or a 2-5 straight combo to hope for if, on the other hand, you are an eternal optimist!

 

Yes, with hindsight, I agree.

I spent all weekend thinking about this. Not "bugger, I got muffed", but "Positives", how could we have played this better, or different? I've been very lucky when Sponsored into Comps, almost a 100% record, & I believe this is what sponsors want, their "jockey" to do well, so I was a bit miffed with myself that I'd not done better on this occasion. Just one of those things I guess, it was a tough decision & I made the wrong one.
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« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2007, 03:01:23 PM »

I'm not passing on that board.  Perhaps a bigger bet pre flop may have got rid of him but when holding the bullets u really don't want to scare him out.  Against an aggressive player u want as much action as possible from him. 

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« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2007, 03:11:26 PM »

Can I just say I'm not a fan of Skalie's call of your preflop raise, most of the time he'll face an unfavourable board OOP, some of the times he does hit a set you'll have missed with AK/AQ anyway, or will be looking at an Ace or King high board with QQ or JJ. If he hits his set he has to get your whole stack for it to be profitable, I just don't think that between 9/1 and 10/1 is enough for this.
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« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2007, 03:17:11 PM »

I hate HIS call preflop with 44 vs you OOP.

As for the way you have played it, maybe a little less on the flop, but whatever you bet you are never getting away. Just one of those nasty hands.
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matt674
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« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2007, 03:25:53 PM »

one important piece of info which is very relevant to the situation is how many chips Skalie has.

Tikay says he had been "busy" so if he had got himself upto about 50-60k where the average was 18k then calling the 2k in an attempt to hit a set and bust someone you believe to be weak passive isnt that bad a move.
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tikay
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« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2007, 03:45:47 PM »

one important piece of info which is very relevant to the situation is how many chips Skalie has.

Tikay says he had been "busy" so if he had got himself upto about 50-60k where the average was 18k then calling the 2k in an attempt to hit a set and bust someone you believe to be weak passive isnt that bad a move.

skalie just about covered me, with 2k or so to spare, they needed to check the stacks after the hand, & he was just above me.
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« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2007, 03:53:50 PM »

ok thanks - oh and one more quick question, when you turned your cards over did they both have a pointy like letter in the top corner or did they both have non-matching curly numbers?

 stirthepot

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