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Author Topic: Hand of the week: December 10th  (Read 20527 times)
AlexMartin
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« Reply #135 on: December 18, 2007, 05:50:38 PM »

Quote from: [url=http://www.blondepoker.com/blondepedia/blondepedia_view_player.php?player_id=1198
Alex[/url] Martin link=topic=29535.msg610400#msg610400 date=1197998130]
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I should have just shoved the flop, after all he obv had a set
No, you should bet the flop for all the reasons I gave. If you are going to risk everything from a position of great strength then lets do it when we have it. Waiting until we possibly don't have it and then risking everything is not really necessary.

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Couldnt disagree more. At this stage and the hand ranges you can put him on the straight and overset is so unlikely that you always always shove here. Im flabbergasted at this.

It's not really about how unlikely he has us beat...but more that he is unlikely to call with anything that doesn't have us beat. That 32k is worth more in front of us than it is in the middle because of the possibility that he does have it. There is plenty enough in the pot if he doesn't. The two eventualities are CL or OUT if you push and CL or still IN if you call.

I totally get this Mantis, but lets use our brain for a minute. We know a lot about oppo, we have 3 streets of information.
The pot is already huge, and the last amount we can win is also a big big chunk at this stage. Maximising chip extraction is a big big thing. Opponent cannot be a mug to have got this far in the comp and be the CL. Therefore his betting patterns can be read pretty soundly no?  Look at preflop , flop etc and its pretty clear that.

a) he cant have a straight.
b) he doesnt have an overset. Look at the possible ones out there and the action preflop.
c) he can have an underset and he can have a dodgy 2 pair.

Look at this in terms of probability he has you beaten, what the extra chips mean to you and your tournament life. I dont think the ratio's/probabilities add-up enough of the time to make this warrant a call. I know this looks like a hindsight post but an underset would be exactly what im putting oppo on here.

I favour the underset as the most likely hand here as well Alex, but i can't rule out the straight, his line fits KJ perfectly (excluding marginal call pre, but he may be a bit of a fish)

Oops. Forgot flop action, thought there was a bet. Ok KJ makes up a big chunk of his range on turn. I withdraw my comments. Flat call river.
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MANTIS01
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« Reply #136 on: December 18, 2007, 07:45:32 PM »

I think the minimum raise on the river is the clearest piece of information in the hand and narrows his range to just five possibilities.

He is the current CL and doesn't want to loose that status anytime soon. He really doesn't want to go down to the felt in his first hand at the table. Flushy feels the same pre-flop...
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..obviously the only man i was worried about was the CL, of course poker is a bitch so they all pass except the CL who flat calls the 12k more

So if you accept that this guy feels really strongly about his position it is clear that his river action to AT LEAST pot commit his opponent to a showdown, if not induce him to come over the top for more chips, would indicate a very strong hand. With his opponent presenting a massive danger he never does this without huge strength imo. This high risk move, and the fact he starts pumping chips when the A arrives, would point to of the very best of that 5 hand range and so it makes the straight the most likely scenario. Of course, we know from the result that his min raise was a mistake....namely pushing the 5th nuts hand against the 3rd chip leader....the same mistake we make by pushing the 4th nuts against the CL. I think both hands are being overvalued in the face of such potentially crippling danger...the "most of the time" theory is ok when your opponent has less chips or you need to take that sort of chance (which is most of the time) but not in these circumstances. While he may have one of the two hands we beat from his range....I wouldn't bet my life on it...so calling to showdown for a massive pot is the best play.
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« Reply #137 on: December 18, 2007, 11:31:11 PM »

I think any player who doesn't want to take on the chipleader is flawed, anyone undaunted by the prospect is equally flawed.
There is a line in your post that makes me want to scream with frustration, anyone tell me what it is?
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