Thoughts Please - (Crippling tournament hand)

[GlasgowBandit]

Right guys fire away criticism welcome but be gentle with me still feeling pretty delicate after this hand.

I Played a live tourny the night £30 freeze out.  Final table I have 31k and I am 2nd CL, this is first hand of the final and I am on the button.  I look down and find the blinds are 500/1k it folds round to me and I make it 6k to go, the SB remarks "every time on my blinds you raise", dwells  for a few seconds and says "but you haven't done it with muck" then passes.

BB CL, 60k circa goes into the tank and then after about 3 minutes he calls.  Flop comes down he checks to me and I fire in 9k, he once again dwells for about 4 minutes messing about with chips looks at his cards, gets ready to muck them puts them down picks them up messes around with chips again and asks "who is it to go" when told by the dealer it was he he announed "I'm all in" WTF!!??!!

I haven't played this guy before complete mateyboy, he hadn't been at my table at all until now.  I really don't know where I am, I think I play the hand quite strongly to this point, I have 16k back but if I make the call I stand the chance of winning a 60k pot double me up and creates a big dent in his stack. 

I am really undecided.  Call or fold?  Do you play the hand any differently?  What do you make of the dwell ups both pre and post flop, significant?

Opinions welcome.

[AlexMartin]

Right guys fire away criticism welcome but be gentle with me still feeling pretty delicate after this hand.

I Played a live tourny the night £30 freeze out.  Final table I have 31k and I am 2nd CL, this is first hand of the final and I am on the button.  I look down and find the blinds are 500/1k it folds round to me and I make it 6k to go, the SB remarks "every time on my blinds you raise", dwells  for a few seconds and says "but you haven't done it with muck" then passes.

BB CL, 60k circa goes into the tank and then after about 3 minutes he calls.  Flop comes down he checks to me and I fire in 9k, he once again dwells for about 4 minutes messing about with chips looks at his cards, gets ready to muck them puts them down picks them up messes around with chips again and asks "who is it to go" when told by the dealer it was he he announed "I'm all in" WTF!!??!!

I haven't played this guy before complete mateyboy, he hadn't been at my table at all until now.  I really don't know where I am, I think I play the hand quite strongly to this point, I have 16k back but if I make the call I stand the chance of winning a 60k pot double me up and creates a big dent in his stack. 
I am really undecided.  Call or fold?  Do you play the hand any differently?  What do you make of the dwell ups both pre and post flop, significant?
Opinions welcome.

Hi Glasgow. I call here. Pretty much always.

This is tricky but the key point is ur pot odds here. This board has hit a lot of hands, a lot of which you are beating. Bear in mind that people play flush draws (i have no idea why) by check-raising a huge amount of the time. With these odds and the relative strength of your hand you have to call.

The dwells are probably some fancy weak is strong giveaway, but frankly i dont really care when the pot is laying me this kind of price. You damage your chances of winning the comp if you pass here.


Personally, dont get into this situation because i prolly jam ur hand preflop v CL in the BB.

[totalise]

jamming is pretty poor preflop, loses too much value, its not like you have 22 or A3os

Bear in mind that people play flush draws (i have no idea why) by check-raising a huge amount of the time

because people cbet too much



As for the hand, its obvious you lost, otherwise this post would never have been made, but I'd call anyways

[Ironside]

does anyone think they could get away from the hand with a standard raise to 3k preflop then a pot raise on flop still leaving you 21bbs when you get check raised 16k to win 47k left you commited but with 21 back to win 42k then its much easier to fold and let him show off his J5o

[gatso]

does anyone think they could get away from the hand with a standard raise to 3k preflop then a pot raise on flop still leaving you 21bbs when you get check raised 16k to win 47k left you commited but with 21 back to win 42k then its much easier to fold and let him show off his J5o

yeah, my first thought on looking at the hand was why are we open raising to 6xBB? completely changes the dynamic of the hand from what we'd have with a standard 3xBB raise

[totalise]

does anyone think they could get away from the hand with a standard raise to 3k preflop then a pot raise on flop still leaving you 21bbs when you get check raised 16k to win 47k left you commited but with 21 back to win 42k then its much easier to fold and let him show off his J5o

I dont think its equitable to get 1010 on the button and to start thinking bout ways to "get off the hand" before its even started.

[Ironside]

no its not but i make the same raise here with 76s TT or AA always 3xBB as you have 31bbs you still have options on the flop

if you had less chips in realation to the bb you can jam if you wish

but i dont see the point of raising to 6xbbs it basically commits you to the pot if you put another chip into the pot

wheras a standard raise gives you options

same goes for 67s or AA with the AA howeer you wouldnt be folding to the check raise

[AlexMartin]

lolz i really should have read stack sizes eek.

[Horneris]

I agree with Ironside.

Surely a standard raise to 2.6k or 2.9k pre flop would have sufficed.

Then make it 5.2ish on the flop and its much easier to get away from, if you choose too.

[ChipRich]

Make it 3k pre, then 5.5 on flop.

Then maybe he doesn't move all in on you on flop, into a lot smaller pot.

[boldie]

the 6 BB's pre-flop make it look too much like a steal..and the flop bet is a continuation of that. 3k pre and 5 or 6 on the flop for me..but as played I ain't folding as he could have any two here

[LuckyLloyd]

the 6 BB's pre-flop make it look too much like a steal..and the flop bet is a continuation of that. 3k pre and 5 or 6 on the flop for me..but as played I ain't folding as he could have any two here

Agree with all the comments about how we should raise and bet smaller. But why do you all think the guy has feck all?

- We have half our stack in the middle = bad time to bluff us!!
- That tanking and thinking before the all - in usually means STRENGTH!!
- It is perfectly reasonable that he just calls JJ - AA preflop because we made it so much to go!!

I'd put his range at JJ -AA; QJ; KJ; AJ; 99; 33; KsQs; AsXs;

Not that we can really fold though given that we're getting 3 / 1 on the rest of our money!!

[Royal Flush]

"is it me" then a push, lol


Same as everyone else here, you fcked this hand up pre flop with 6BB bet. Make it 3 this never happens.

[GlasgowBandit]

I normally would make it 3 x bb - sometimes I'd make it 4, but for the duration of the competition the opening raise was 5x and 6x BB. Pretty poor tbh, I though that if I changed the standard raise it would have set alarm bells going.  Maybe I put too much thought into that?  Perhaps its best to play ypur own game and not worry about what else is happening?

However, early doors I made a standard 3x BB raise when we where playing 150/300  when holding rockets and got 6 callers pre-flop. 

[boldie]

I normally would make it 3 x bb - sometimes I'd make it 4, but for the duration of the competition the opening raise was 5x and 6x BB. Pretty poor tbh, I though that if I changed the standard raise it would have set alarm bells going.  Maybe I put too much thought into that?  Perhaps its best to play ypur own game and not worry about what else is happening?

However, early doors I made a standard 3x BB raise when we where playing 150/300  when holding rockets and got 6 callers pre-flop. 

you always have to take into accountwhat has been happening  during a tourney..however you can not compare the fairly early stages of a tourney to hte middle/late stages when it comes to raises. You also have to take into account how many chips you have when you mke a raise..don't raise 6x the BB jst because it's the standard raise throughout a tourney. This is the start of the FT and the first hand at that..you can raise whatever you want.