Cash Games - "Live Straddles"

[tikay]

Most Cash Games in which I sit permit Live Straddles. I am, relatively, a newbie to regular Cash Games.

It's, say, £3-£3, & there is a straddle almost every time to £6, sometimes then to £12.

I never Straddle, & when I'm in the "straddle position" & refuse to Straddle, I get grief from the Table.

My reasoning?

1) I don't really understand the point of Straddling. If I want to pay for higher Blinds, I can sit at a bigger table.

2) Surely all it's doing is increasing the "gamble factor" & Pot-Building.

Is there a good reason why I should join the "Straddle Club"?

PS - I note that DTD refuse to allow Straddles, on the basis that it forces less well-funded players out of pots.

[ACE2M]

i straddle early doors to get the money moving,just to create a game i like.

[Nilawina]

I have no problem with the single live straddle from UTG. The advantage is to act last preflop.

In Texas say you've got a reputation as a gambler or just plain aggressive the advantages are huge. Most players with semi-strong hands will call and wait to call or reraise if the UTG straddler is known to pop the pot up when given the option.

The pay offs for UTG player when he has a monster pre-flop are huge.
Most other players will call preflop believing UTG is just being aggressive. In PL games it enables UTG straddler to raise to maximum value preflop which under normal play would only be 3.5x BB. If another player with a medium pair tries to isolate the straddler with a reraise they could lose all their chips thinking they are going heads up against a gambler when really they are a 4 to 1 dog.

If UTG player only has a small pair or suited connector, the straddle means they can usually see a flop cheap against a big hand that has elected to wait for the straddler to raise. So the straddler can play these hand that usually should be played in late postion and may flop a hand which a slow played big hand may not be able to get away from.

[snoopy1239]

I have no problem with the single live straddle from UTG. The advantage is to act last preflop.

This advantage is so minor that it's simply not worth straddling for that reason. What percentage of times do the straddlers actually raise pre-flop? Even if they do, they are likely to be out of position come the flop. The only genuine benefit I can see is to remove the other players from their comfort zone.

[thetank]

I like to use it later on in a cash game, when there's generally a bit more money on the table, and often less players.

To stack someone when they're deep is tough. They normally won't put all that money in the pot without a nut or near nut hand.
In order to make getting that money easier, it's a good idea to think about building pots pre-flop and loosening up your image.

Straddling can go a long way to achieving both these ends, and when there is a decent amount of money on the right table, the implied odds can make even the double straddle a good bet.

It can not only push people out of their comfort zone, it can push them out of the game. No fear, these are the people who you don't really want in there. You've spent hours cultivating a gambling atmosphere and are ready to relieve a couple of deep stacked and tired fish of all their money. You don't want the rock listning to his i-pod all night taking home the spoils of your labour. You want him pushed out of every pot. 


Furthermore, I'd advise the OP that while it's never a good idea to be bullied into doing something that you don't want to do, if you are getting grief from the table for not straddling, they have taken notice of your unwillingness to gamble and it is perhaps symptomatic of an overly tight table image. It might be worthwhile considering what else you can do to offset this.

You mention that you can just play a bigger game if you want bigger blinds. The reverse might also be true. When the straddling starts, play in a game where there are smaller blinds so you're back in your comfort zone and better able to take your share of all that free money that is flying around the table.

[doubleup]

if you are getting grief from the table for not straddling, they have taken notice of your unwillingness to gamble and it is perhaps symptomatic of an overly tight table image.

I'm pretty sure that in a holdem game, simply by not straddling when everyone else is and having tight image (you would want the blind bets to fold to your raises) would guarantee a win.

[77dave]

Im a fan of straddles

i see them as an investment into future pots   ok most of the time you wont have a monster in the straddle but you will cause others to play differently in the hand because of your staddle.  They may even slowplay a monster waiting for your raise  or they may raise because of the straddle and others play the hand differently against them.  It can also mean players win bigger pots putting the player who loses the pot on tilt which can affect later pots

[tikay]

I like to use it later on in a cash game, when there's generally a bit more money on the table, and often less players.

To stack someone when they're deep is tough. They normally won't put all that money in the pot without a nut or near nut hand.
In order to make getting that money easier, it's a good idea to think about building pots pre-flop and loosening up your image.

Straddling can go a long way to achieving both these ends, and when there is a decent amount of money on the right table, the implied odds can make even the double straddle a good bet.

It can not only push people out of their comfort zone, it can push them out of the game. No fear, these are the people who you don't really want in there. You've spent hours cultivating a gambling atmosphere and are ready to relieve a couple of deep stacked and tired fish of all their money. You don't want the rock listning to his i-pod all night taking home the spoils of your labour. You want him pushed out of every pot. 


Furthermore, I'd advise the OP that while it's never a good idea to be bullied into doing something that you don't want to do, if you are getting grief from the table for not straddling, they have taken notice of your unwillingness to gamble and it is perhaps symptomatic of an overly tight table image. It might be worthwhile considering what else you can do to offset this.

You mention that you can just play a bigger game if you want bigger blinds. The reverse might also be true. When the straddling starts, play in a game where there are smaller blinds so you're back in your comfort zone and better able to take your share of all that free money that is flying around the table.

My question was "loaded", and I want to await more feedback before commenting too much, but I could not disagree more with your summing up Mr Tank The Dad Sir, & you have missed the point.

It's got nothing to do with "comfort-zone", it's got to do with + & - EV.

I am always happy to share a table with the blind-straddlers, it gives me a huge edge, because straddling is -EV. It is a mathematical & prove-able fact.

I was just hoping someone could come up with a logical, sensible, reason as to why they have been led to believe straddling is a good thing - for the straddlers. It's clearly a good thing for the non-straddlers, like me.

Marcel Luske started the trend - now the fashion for all the wannabees - of "checking in the dark". But Marcel understands why he does it, the wannabes don't.

The Emporor's suit of clothes springs to mind.

PS - my "overly tight table image". In Tourneys, yes, I'm Lord Rock, & happily so, & that's how I can make profits in Tourneys. But in Cash-Games - well, ask anyone who's played me in Cash, & I'm exactly the opposite. I am, in fact, Lord Loose Goose. But Straddle bcause they all give me grief? You jest. I'm made of sterner stuff, & I'm happy to chuckle away to myself at their antics. Remember, in poker, the value of doing the opposite to what is expected is huge.

I'm looking forward to the views on this subject of the Cash-Game Experts, & especially Totalise, Cat & Longy. Oh, & the Flushster.

[tikay]

Im a fan of straddles

i see them as an investment into future pots   ok most of the time you wont have a monster in the straddle but you will cause others to play differently in the hand because of your staddle.  They may even slowplay a monster waiting for your raise  or they may raise because of the straddle and others play the hand differently against them.  It can also mean players win bigger pots putting the player who loses the pot on tilt which can affect later pots

I see all that Jim, but look at it differently. Imagine, say - the difference between CALLING & RAISING. Massive & fundamental, yes? Add to that, it's my nature never to be "forced" into playing pots on the terms of others - I play pots on my terms. It's the same with Straddles - nobody can take me where I don't wanna go, on terms disadvantageous to me. I'll do it when, & if it suits me, not when fashion or peer pressure suggests I should.

Lead, don't follow. By straddling, all I'm doing is giving eveyone else an edge.

It's my money, & it goes in the pot on my terms.

I sat in a game a while back, £4-£4, & it went (Straddle) £8, £16, £32, £64, £128. And these guys thought they could play! But they did have very big dicks.

[77dave]

I agree with what your saying and thats a good reason for you not to straddle yourself

straddling for me like most things in poker is about timing  doing it when the right players are in the right positions and in the right state of tilt.

For example if its Anthonys button and he chooses 4 card omaha there is a good chance that i will straddle. 9/10 he will raise 15 on his button if no1 has raised in front of him but by me straddling it affects his control on the button  ( i know the question is mainly set out for holdem games)

Also ask yourself how you play a pot differently if you pick up a monster when someone else has made a straddle. Do you slow play it waiting for a raise and sometimes trap yourself. Other times you might over raise with it as you dont want too many callers as they may come in for value if they have already called a straddle  not always easy to get rid of the calling stations if they have already called a straddle

[bobby1]

Most Cash Games in which I sit permit Live Straddles. I am, relatively, a newbie to regular Cash Games.

It's, say, £3-£3, & there is a straddle almost every time to £6, sometimes then to £12.

I never Straddle, & when I'm in the "straddle position" & refuse to Straddle, I get grief from the Table.

My reasoning?

1) I don't really understand the point of Straddling. If I want to pay for higher Blinds, I can sit at a bigger table.

2) Surely all it's doing is increasing the "gamble factor" & Pot-Building.

Is there a good reason why I should join the "Straddle Club"?

PS - I note that dtd refuse to allow Straddles, on the basis that it forces less well-funded players out of pots.

I agree with all the above, most of the gamblers that play poker see this as the way to create big pots as they want to fill the gamble needs and not neceserily play good poker.

All it does is create pots that people then fall over themselves to win, the standard of the game goes down and as you say all that happens is you are playing bingo most of the time.

Can be good for us cash game rockys tho if we do ever find a big hand(2004 was the last time, it was a Wednesday I think)

[tikay]

Most Cash Games in which I sit permit Live Straddles. I am, relatively, a newbie to regular Cash Games.

It's, say, £3-£3, & there is a straddle almost every time to £6, sometimes then to £12.

I never Straddle, & when I'm in the "straddle position" & refuse to Straddle, I get grief from the Table.

My reasoning?

1) I don't really understand the point of Straddling. If I want to pay for higher Blinds, I can sit at a bigger table.

2) Surely all it's doing is increasing the "gamble factor" & Pot-Building.

Is there a good reason why I should join the "Straddle Club"?

PS - I note that dtd refuse to allow Straddles, on the basis that it forces less well-funded players out of pots.

I agree with all the above, most of the gamblers that play poker see this as the way to create big pots as they want to fill the gamble needs and not neceserily play good poker.

All it does is create pots that people then fall over themselves to win, the standard of the game goes down and as you say all that happens is you are playing bingo most of the time.

Can be good for us cash game rockys tho if we do ever find a big hand(2004 was the last time, it was a Wednesday I think)

Spot on Phil. When those eejits were quadruple straddling to £64 & £128, that's not poker, thats Bingo, & fair play to dtd for refusing to allow it - because it's a poker club, not a Bingo Hall.

[Tractor]

Most Cash Games in which I sit permit Live Straddles. I am, relatively, a newbie to regular Cash Games.

It's, say, £3-£3, & there is a straddle almost every time to £6, sometimes then to £12.

I never Straddle, & when I'm in the "straddle position" & refuse to Straddle, I get grief from the Table.

My reasoning?

1) I don't really understand the point of Straddling. If I want to pay for higher Blinds, I can sit at a bigger table.

2) Surely all it's doing is increasing the "gamble factor" & Pot-Building.

Is there a good reason why I should join the "Straddle Club"?

PS - I note that dtd refuse to allow Straddles, on the basis that it forces less well-funded players out of pots.

I agree with all the above, most of the gamblers that play poker see this as the way to create big pots as they want to fill the gamble needs and not neceserily play good poker.

All it does is create pots that people then fall over themselves to win, the standard of the game goes down and as you say all that happens is you are playing bingo most of the time.

Can be good for us cash game rockys tho if we do ever find a big hand(2004 was the last time, it was a Wednesday I think)

Spot on Phil. When those eejits were quadruple straddling to £64 & £128, that's not poker, thats Bingo, & fair play to dtd for refusing to allow it - because it's a poker club, not a Bingo Hall.

I still think its a bit short sighted of DTD to just ban straddles, why not have certain tables that allow straddles?

[77dave]

There is also a difference between allowing utg to straddle  and allowing it to continue being live from every position  there onwards.

On a slightly different subject the Rio during the WSOP allows a Mississippi straddle which allows the player on the button to straddle and the action starts preflop from the sb this is such a huge advantage to the button with having position its hard not to straddle everytime when on the button

[Delboy]

On the "Live at the Bike" Broadcasts, Dave Tuchman used to say that he thought that Straddles were only +EV when the table was short handed (5 or less) and then with quite lose players as it gave you the oportunity to re-raise them off of the pot pre flop. Anyother situations, he could see no value in it whatsoever.

I think thats what he said anyway.