Cash Games - "Live Straddles"

[tikay]

Most Cash Games in which I sit permit Live Straddles. I am, relatively, a newbie to regular Cash Games.

It's, say, £3-£3, & there is a straddle almost every time to £6, sometimes then to £12.

I never Straddle, & when I'm in the "straddle position" & refuse to Straddle, I get grief from the Table.

My reasoning?

1) I don't really understand the point of Straddling. If I want to pay for higher Blinds, I can sit at a bigger table.

2) Surely all it's doing is increasing the "gamble factor" & Pot-Building.

Is there a good reason why I should join the "Straddle Club"?

PS - I note that dtd refuse to allow Straddles, on the basis that it forces less well-funded players out of pots.

I agree with all the above, most of the gamblers that play poker see this as the way to create big pots as they want to fill the gamble needs and not neceserily play good poker.

All it does is create pots that people then fall over themselves to win, the standard of the game goes down and as you say all that happens is you are playing bingo most of the time.

Can be good for us cash game rockys tho if we do ever find a big hand(2004 was the last time, it was a Wednesday I think)

Spot on Phil. When those eejits were quadruple straddling to £64 & £128, that's not poker, thats Bingo, & fair play to dtd for refusing to allow it - because it's a poker club, not a Bingo Hall.

I still think its a bit short sighted of dtd to just ban straddles, why not have certain tables that allow straddles?

Because they wish to encourage good poker.

[totalise]

doing straddles are almost always -ev, I guess one time it could be acceptable mathematically would be if you were utg with 2BB left in your stack and it was a loose table, then you could get 4/1 or 5/1 on your money on a random hand, but generally the value of the straddle is one for enjoyment

Heres a Q for you, do you find that they fold more to you when you refuse to straddle? it does create an illusion of being very tight, which I guess could be exploited pretty nicely!

I dont agree for poker places to ban straddles though, and the reason of wanting to encourage "poker",  is poker, poker is gambling for most poeple, what next, ban people from going allin preflop?

[77dave]

poker isnt always about  the maths and ev+ and ev-

you can do things to set up plays for hands later on in the session

i have seen players such as daniel N  make calls on the river knowing he has lost the hand so that it affects plays later on

i agree that most of the time straddling is ev- but with a little bit of timing it can be a handy weapon in the arsenal

[tikay]

doing straddles are almost always -ev, I guess one time it could be acceptable mathematically would be if you were utg with 2BB left in your stack and it was a loose table, then you could get 4/1 or 5/1 on your money on a random hand, but generally the value of the straddle is one for enjoyment

Heres a Q for you, do you find that they fold more to you when you refuse to straddle? it does create an illusion of being very tight, which I guess could be exploited pretty nicely!

I dont agree for poker places to ban straddles though, and the reason of wanting to encourage "poker",  is poker, poker is gambling for most poeple, what next, ban people from going allin preflop?

Yup! I guess both sides of the argument think they have the best of it. I'm happy enough with that.

But I'm glad you've nailed the old wives tale as to Straddles - they are  - except in special cases, -EV.

Likewise, if the eejits wanna have a pissing contest with Straddles, I'll lie in wait & take them on as & when it suits me.

[77dave]

Tikay would you feel different about straddles if they were restricted to utg only

[gatso]

Tikay would you feel different about straddles if they were restricted to utg only

they are aren't they. anything else is just a blind raise. or is there anywhere where superstraddles are live?

[77dave]

In most cash games the straddle can continue around the table as far as the button each bet is double the one before all bets are live   

[tikay]

Tikay would you feel different about straddles if they were restricted to utg only

On the whole, my view would remain the same.

But I like your take - use it in special circumstance, dynamically, according to the texture of the table. That's fine & dandy, but most straddlers do it for a different reason - which I doubt they understand, other than they prefer "gambling" blind to playing, &, of course, they love to show just how huge, & small, respectively,  their dicks & brains are.

[RED-DOG]

I'm very happy for someone to pay £64 for the privelige of not seeing their hole cards while I look at mine for free.

[Tractor]

Most Cash Games in which I sit permit Live Straddles. I am, relatively, a newbie to regular Cash Games.

It's, say, £3-£3, & there is a straddle almost every time to £6, sometimes then to £12.

I never Straddle, & when I'm in the "straddle position" & refuse to Straddle, I get grief from the Table.

My reasoning?

1) I don't really understand the point of Straddling. If I want to pay for higher Blinds, I can sit at a bigger table.

2) Surely all it's doing is increasing the "gamble factor" & Pot-Building.

Is there a good reason why I should join the "Straddle Club"?

PS - I note that dtd refuse to allow Straddles, on the basis that it forces less well-funded players out of pots.

I agree with all the above, most of the gamblers that play poker see this as the way to create big pots as they want to fill the gamble needs and not neceserily play good poker.

All it does is create pots that people then fall over themselves to win, the standard of the game goes down and as you say all that happens is you are playing bingo most of the time.

Can be good for us cash game rockys tho if we do ever find a big hand(2004 was the last time, it was a Wednesday I think)

Spot on Phil. When those eejits were quadruple straddling to £64 & £128, that's not poker, thats Bingo, & fair play to dtd for refusing to allow it - because it's a poker club, not a Bingo Hall.

I still think its a bit short sighted of dtd to just ban straddles, why not have certain tables that allow straddles?

Because they wish to encourage good poker.

STTs at DTD have 7 minute blinds because they wish to encourage good poker?

[tikay]

I'm very happy for someone to pay £64 for the privelige of not seeing their hole cards while I look at mine for free.

As ever, Red hits the nail on the head!

[77dave]

i agree multi straddles are a complete lottery  but i maintain this is an art to using an utg straddle

[tikay]

Most Cash Games in which I sit permit Live Straddles. I am, relatively, a newbie to regular Cash Games.

It's, say, £3-£3, & there is a straddle almost every time to £6, sometimes then to £12.

I never Straddle, & when I'm in the "straddle position" & refuse to Straddle, I get grief from the Table.

My reasoning?

1) I don't really understand the point of Straddling. If I want to pay for higher Blinds, I can sit at a bigger table.

2) Surely all it's doing is increasing the "gamble factor" & Pot-Building.

Is there a good reason why I should join the "Straddle Club"?

PS - I note that dtd refuse to allow Straddles, on the basis that it forces less well-funded players out of pots.

I agree with all the above, most of the gamblers that play poker see this as the way to create big pots as they want to fill the gamble needs and not neceserily play good poker.

All it does is create pots that people then fall over themselves to win, the standard of the game goes down and as you say all that happens is you are playing bingo most of the time.

Can be good for us cash game rockys tho if we do ever find a big hand(2004 was the last time, it was a Wednesday I think)

Spot on Phil. When those eejits were quadruple straddling to £64 & £128, that's not poker, thats Bingo, & fair play to dtd for refusing to allow it - because it's a poker club, not a Bingo Hall.

I still think its a bit short sighted of dtd to just ban straddles, why not have certain tables that allow straddles?

Because they wish to encourage good poker.

STTs at dtd have 7 minute blinds because they wish to encourage good poker?

I am not just expressing a view here, I'm stating what DTD said, here on blonde. I happen to agree. Simon Trumper made the statement, saying he did not wish to see players disadvantaged by Straddles.

The 7 minute Blinds in the STT's - I happen to be with you on that, but again, DTD stated their (temporary) reasons for doing this, to try & cater for the demand until they have enough Dealeres on board. Which will be quite soon, I gather.

[Tractor]

Most Cash Games in which I sit permit Live Straddles. I am, relatively, a newbie to regular Cash Games.

It's, say, £3-£3, & there is a straddle almost every time to £6, sometimes then to £12.

I never Straddle, & when I'm in the "straddle position" & refuse to Straddle, I get grief from the Table.

My reasoning?

1) I don't really understand the point of Straddling. If I want to pay for higher Blinds, I can sit at a bigger table.

2) Surely all it's doing is increasing the "gamble factor" & Pot-Building.

Is there a good reason why I should join the "Straddle Club"?

PS - I note that dtd refuse to allow Straddles, on the basis that it forces less well-funded players out of pots.

I agree with all the above, most of the gamblers that play poker see this as the way to create big pots as they want to fill the gamble needs and not neceserily play good poker.

All it does is create pots that people then fall over themselves to win, the standard of the game goes down and as you say all that happens is you are playing bingo most of the time.

Can be good for us cash game rockys tho if we do ever find a big hand(2004 was the last time, it was a Wednesday I think)

Spot on Phil. When those eejits were quadruple straddling to £64 & £128, that's not poker, thats Bingo, & fair play to dtd for refusing to allow it - because it's a poker club, not a Bingo Hall.

I still think its a bit short sighted of dtd to just ban straddles, why not have certain tables that allow straddles?

Because they wish to encourage good poker.

STTs at dtd have 7 minute blinds because they wish to encourage good poker?

I am not just expressing a view here, I'm stating what dtd said, here on blonde. I happen to agree. Simon Trumper made the statement, saying he did not wish to see players disadvantaged by Straddles.

The 7 minute Blinds in the STT's - I happen to be with you on that, but again, dtd stated their (temporary) reasons for doing this, to try & cater for the demand until they have enough Dealeres on board. Which will be quite soon, I gather.

Funnily enough, i very rarely straddle (i dont mind other people straddling for the same reasons as you) but i just find it strange having a blanket rule of no straddles.

[thetank]

My question was "loaded", and I want to await more feedback before commenting too much, but I could not disagree more with your summing up Mr Tank The Dad Sir, & you have missed the point.

It's got nothing to do with "comfort-zone", it's got to do with + & - EV.

Everything is about EV of course, but sometimes pushing otherwise good players into playing a game they don't want to, (or forcing them out of playing the sort of game they do want to) can affect your EV to the good.



Consider this....

3 other players with me at the table
Blinds are £1/£1

- A young guy, probably a better player than me. Certainly capable of making better reads. Although I know he is currently shortrolled due to leaks.

- A foreign chap, extremely passive calling station and sitting on a monster stack having gotten rather fortunate. He is having fun, independantly wealthy, but that stack at least will be gone by the end of the night.

- A mad guy doing his bollox, spunking buy-in after buy-in trying to build a stack and get out of a hole. He is straddling every hand, and encouraging the obedient foreign chap to do the same.


I know there's a huge probability the money is going to either me or the young guy (or both) by the time the sun comes up.

I choose to straddle, as a result double straddles are possible to my left.
The amount of money in the pot pre-flop before cards are dealt has increased by an average 67% from what it would be if I didn't straddle, the amount of actual money it takes to see a flop increases by a whole lot more than that.

The young guy has £300 left, and ideally wants to see flops for under £5 not over £20. It only costs him £2 a round, so he decides to wait for his moment and a big pair rather than risk a significant portion of his bankroll with a narrower edge.

Looking at the young guys game, as the only player in the game not straddling, of course he is +EV to wait for Kings. He can sit back and listen to his i-pod and make a profit, good for him. However, he would be massively more +EV in a game where he can afford to see flops and value bet his way through the foreigners £1,500 stack quickly and efficiently.

As poker is a zero sum game, his loss is indirectly (but not too indirectly) my gain. I can play pots that, although large with smaller edge per hand, are very numerous and against two predicatable players.
The free money from the foreigner is only available for a very limited time, Once his massive stack inevitably dissapears, the game will likely break up.

A rather specific situation, but I'm just making the point that a policy of never straddling can be as silly as a policy of always straddling.
I will concede that straddling is typically a -EV play though.