is daniel negreanu right or is he a right muppet

[Card_Shark]

I think i may have missed something here? surly Daniel Negreanu is one of the most liked and respected pro's that walk the Earth? Sure he has views that some people may not agree with but for me he plays poker in the true spirit of the game and is a marvelous ambassador for poker.

Why does he now become a "whining little shit" just because you do not agree with his comments?

[DUNK619]

if he he doesnt like it he could always vote with his feet and not play the wsop me

[thetank]

Dont agree with a shootout at all. Tournaments are about accumulating chips, a shootout would negate that. As we speak Phil Ivey is a monster chip leader in the aussie millions, he put himself in this unbeatable position by being great at poker, if the event was a shootout he would be back to square one with every table.Chip leaders and short stacks are what poker is all about for me, shootouts negate that.

Good point, well made.

I disagree that STT players would benefit most from the shootout structure. The winner take all nature of each table would have them throw their relative chip values out the window and make it play more like a cash game.

[boldie]

Dont agree with a shootout at all. Tournaments are about accumulating chips, a shootout would negate that. As we speak Phil Ivey is a monster chip leader in the aussie millions, he put himself in this unbeatable position by being great at poker, if the event was a shootout he would be back to square one with every table.Chip leaders and short stacks are what poker is all about for me, shootouts negate that.

Good point, well made.

I disagree that STT players would benefit most from the shootout structure. The winner take all nature of each table would have them throw their relative chip values out the window and make it play more like a cash game.

can you imagine the ME being all shootouts with 2 hour levels though?..it'd take aaaaaaaaaaaaaaages

[thetank]

Although the necessity for everyone to play in the same location would be removed, and so you could play the games somewhere other than an aircraft hanger.

[TommyGun241]

The HORSE event should be the ME.  That'll help decide who the true 'world champion' is.  That's my 2 cents.

And, yeah, Negreanu is a moany little shit on this subject.

a lot of people advocate this but why? I don't see the logic in the ME being in a discipline that isn't played the rest of the year.
most other major tournies through the year are NLHE so we'll decide the world champion by playing a limit mixed game. does not compute

Cos you're looking for the best POKER player - not the best Holdem player.  I've no problem with a holdem world championship being in there somewhere too.   

The Open isn't decided by a putting challenge - putting is only one aspect of golf so the golfers are assessed over 18 full holes which will take in all the different range of skills required to be a great golfer.

Granted, you can be a great holdem player and make lots of money playing that game exclusively but then you're the best holdem player - not the best poker player.  There are many different forms of poker so i just think some more of these should be incorporated into the world championship when trying to find the best poker player around.  The only criticism I would have of HORSE being the ME is the fact it is played as a limit game but there would also be ways around this.

I guess it's a subject that there's always gonna be debate about but, hey, that's what we're on a forum for I suppose.

[NoflopsHomer]

Couldn't disagree more on this. Since when has been all about pandering to name players so they get tv time.

Since companies like ESPN gave Harrahs big bucks for TV rights. And other companies gave big bucks to Harrahs for sponsorship which would appear on the TV coverage. If there's much more 'Johnny Nobody's AK beats Bobby Whohe's QQ' for entire stretches of TV coverage then viewers watch something else, ESPN don't pay as much for the rights and Harrahs don't make as much money.

After the Moneymaker/internet poker perfect storm, the sheer numbers of players taking a chance sustained interest. I think that's becoming old hat, especially as the numbers and prize money were down last year.

So Harrahs will look for some way to generate interest, and that will revolve around trying to get more name players at final tables.

To add to AndrewT's point, don't forget that at the WSOP 2007. One final table was played TEN-handed because Phil Helmuth was the 2nd shortest stack and ESPN had to have him make the final table...

[gatso]

Cos you're looking for the best POKER player - not the best Holdem player.  I've no problem with a holdem world championship being in there somewhere too.   

so you create a ME consisting of LHE which is rarely played as a tourney, LO8 which is rarely played as a tourney, razz which nobody ever plays and 2 forms of stud which are rarely played now.

we completely omit NLHE the most played form of tournament poker and PLO hi the second most played and somehow decide this should decide who the best player is. I don't get it to be honest.

why should these 5 games played in a limit tournament decide who is world champion?

[thetank]

They world champion should be decided with all the following disciplines to determine who is truly the best....

Golf
Omaha Hi-Lo

Fixed limit Stud
Uber-deep stacked NLHE
Crazy prop bets
Kings are wild Razz

You-tube educational film making
One card brag
Understanding Sklansky
Reading 2+2
Selling your autobiography
Eating junk food
Limit Holdem
Fighting the urge to call everyone donks.

[thetank]

Forgot to mention that the final table should involve jelly wrestling.

[George2Loose]

WSOP is about the marketing.

ESPN makes it so. They're not interested in who's the best just who shouts the loudest (Rainkhan).

I think 10k too cheap 50k too much

Perhaps 20-25k

Oh and a shootout would be awful for the ME IMO

[TommyGun241]

Cos you're looking for the best POKER player - not the best Holdem player.  I've no problem with a holdem world championship being in there somewhere too.   

so you create a ME consisting of LHE which is rarely played as a tourney, LO8 which is rarely played as a tourney, razz which nobody ever plays and 2 forms of stud which are rarely played now.

we completely omit NLHE the most played form of tournament poker and PLO hi the second most played and somehow decide this should decide who the best player is. I don't get it to be honest.

why should these 5 games played in a limit tournament decide who is world champion?

That's all well and good but that doesn't solve the problem that one NLHE tournament (no matter how high the buy-in) doesn't determine who the best poker player is.  Maybe it's time to create a new game that includes things like NLHE, PL Omaha, Limit Sud, etc.  As long as you can create an animal acronym with the initials.

Alternitavely, take the existing HOSE variation and change the limits according to the game being played (e.g. holdem is played NL as that's the most popular version of it, Omaha is played PL, Stud is Limit and O8 is played PL too).  It just seems a bit fairer than having a big NLHE tournament to decide who the best in the world is.  As another poster said though, ESPN put a lot of money in and they're only interested in seeing Matusow, Hellmuth, etc shouting after losing a half million dollar pot so it probably won't ever change.

[TommyGun241]

Forgot to mention that the final table should involve jelly wrestling.

I like your thinking - it's the way forward

[gatso]

ok, so obv I don't like HORSE determining the world champ and I agree that a NLHE event shouldn't do it either.

my solution is to keep the WSOP as it is now, leave the ME as the ME. that's the biggy and the one people want to play.

now to determine the world champion we have a points scoring system based on finishes in each of the championship events (these already exist for each discipline). Finishes in non championship events do not count. most points = world champ. simple

[TommyGun241]

ok, so obv I don't like HORSE determining the world champ and I agree that a NLHE event shouldn't do it either.

my solution is to keep the WSOP as it is now, leave the ME as the ME. that's the biggy and the one people want to play.

now to determine the world champion we have a points scoring system based on finishes in each of the championship events (these already exist for each discipline). Finishes in non championship events do not count. most points = world champ. simple

Sounds like an idea.  Only problem would be that the winner wouldn't get the big glamorous, glitzy presentation of the bracelet, prize, etc.  Another way would be have a set amount of tournaments throughout the year (similar to the PGA tour) and the top 50 players or so at the end play in a tournament to decide the winner (chip stacks in the tourney are decided by where you finish in the league).  It's similar to how normal poker leagues are run I suppose, except it would hopefully attract the very top players along with online qualifiers, rich businessmen, etc.

Now we just need to decide what kind of game the final tournament should be 

Let the argument begin....