Vagueness and the Aftermath - A sporadic diary

[tikay]

To clarify, when I said this was a stunning thread, I meant that in a good way.

The arguments (the good meaning of the word argument) are fascinating. RED has a tough gig at the mo and is doing a top notch job, ducking nothing, always articulate, displaying supererogatory patience.

This, & add "thetank" to that, for his incredibly insightful Posts.

[MANTIS01]

I would like to add that integration goes hand in hand with assimilation, and that's what I think we're afraid of.

I spent about 3 paragraphs trying to say this - this is exactly what I was trying to say.

Isn't fear of assimilation at the heart of integration friction for EVERY cultural or religious group? People want to retain their identity and adhere to their own set of values and fear things that dillute that heritage.

Ding says

However no one seems to criticise parents sending their children to a Jewish school for example, to allow them to be raised within a Jewish environment as much as possible so I guess the Romany eduation is the same in theory, just not always in the classroom?

I just love this comment. I wish I had made it.

I have a MASSIVE problem with faith schools.  They're divisive, they label and separate children of different 'religion' into groups that causes hostility, emphasises differences but don't promote cross-cultural understanding.  Faith is perfectly fine, but there is no logical reason for faith to be brought into education unless some of the points I mentioned are actually the goals.  There is also the issue that some faith schools get better funding, or offer a higher standard of education but only to a specific section of society - which is discriminatory on grounds of religion obviously.

All imo of course.

The thing is how is it different for people of Christian heritage to want to preserve their traditions? When I see these debates play out there always seems to be a rather romantic slant on ethnic heritage. So Gypsy kids are pulled from mainstream schools because the Gypsy community believe that mainstream education doesn't provide the specific learning they want their children to have. And this is to be applauded because as Tom says "We think our traditions are worth holding onto". Well if you're a Christian and you want your children to grow up within an education system that prepares them for living life with Christian values then you should be able to have that choice as well. But it always seems faith schools are portrayed as the big bad wolf when a faith message isn't a harmful one.

In terms of equality and consistency I don't think you can decide one type of traditional education is ok and another is not ok. Either every kid must be mainstream educated or you allow traditional values to be taught by different groups. But you can't decide what traditions are worth preserving and which aren't by what groups..

[redarmi]

Surely though, similarly to the Jewish tradition, the difference is that within the last one hundred years Gypsies have had their life at risk foir having the front and gall of wanting to be who they are.  Very few other faiths/minorities have had that so a little leeway (and suspicion of outsiders) is reasonable given what they have been through.

[Jon MW]

Surely though, similarly to the Jewish tradition, the difference is that within the last one hundred years Gypsies have had their life at risk foir having the front and gall of wanting to be who they are.  Very few other faiths/minorities have had that so a little leeway (and suspicion of outsiders) is reasonable given what they have been through.

So are you saying that you can only keep your heritage and traditions alive if you've been persecuted?

[redarmi]

No but I do think that when a minority has been persecuted it is reasonable to give them a bit more latitude when they don't open up as quickly.

[redarmi]

By way of example, one criticism often levelled at Jewish people is that they don't allow outsiders into their inner circle easily but when, in recent history, that kind of trust has been betrayed and led to the death of people within your community then I think it is understandable even if it is often unfounded.

[AndrewT]

By way of example, one criticism often levelled at Jewish people is that they don't allow outsiders into their inner circle easily but when, in recent history, that kind of trust has been betrayed and led to the death of people within your community then I think it is understandable even if it is often unfounded.

I'm not surprised - there some pretty strong anti-gay stuff in the Torah...

[Karabiner]

By way of example, one criticism often levelled at Jewish people is that they don't allow outsiders into their inner circle easily but when, in recent history, that kind of trust has been betrayed and led to the death of people within your community then I think it is understandable even if it is often unfounded.

I'm not surprised - there some pretty strong anti-gay stuff in the Torah...

Surely you're not suggesting that today's attitudes towards gays mirror those of c3000 years ago.

I don't even know what the "official" line is but I feel sure that sure it would be fairly moderate.

[AndrewT]

Er, I just just making a crap joke about the double meaning of the bit in bold.

[Karabiner]

Er, I just just making a crap joke about the double meaning of the bit in bold.

Sorry Andrew, I was temporarily whooshed....

[mondatoo]

I love being drunk, it means I can be dead honest. Tom, when I'm pissed I've still got nowt bad to say to you and as has been seen when I am drunk I will tell people there a twat when there a twat. This is the best thread on blonde and tbf it's not even close. I love how much we get to learn from this and I love that your trying to represent Gypsy's and you've educated me loads. Love you very much, but not in a homosexual way xx

[mondatoo]

Love from me

[Tractor]

Not sure if you caught this story on the BBC this morning:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12517436

[RED-DOG]

I love being drunk, it means I can be dead honest. Tom, when I'm pissed I've still got nowt bad to say to you and as has been seen when I am drunk I will tell people there a twat when there a twat. This is the best thread on blonde and tbf it's not even close. I love how much we get to learn from this and I love that your trying to represent Gypy's and you've educated me loads. Love you very much, but not in a homosexual way xx

Cheers Mond, I love you too, and I'm sober.


I may never wash this computer again.....

[RED-DOG]

Not sure if you caught this story on the BBC this morning:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12517436

Home Wood isn't unique. There are areas of Darlington that are very similar, and also one or two estates in Northern Ireland.

I knew of a horse that was kept on a balcony in a block of flats.

They used to take it down in the lift and graze it on the common, and then take it back up again.