Vagueness and the Aftermath - A sporadic diary

[RED-DOG]

Blimey!

I must have been fat then. I have more chins than a Chinese phone book.

[Kev B]

To be fair to the journalists and whilst taking the point about it being their job, how many blondes would know to capitalise 'Gypsy' without Red's ministrations? Not me for sure.

I agree Jack about Blondes, but to do something for a living and getting it wrong not so good, especially if it's not your first article.

[RED-DOG]

This article, and the replies to it, are a good example of the prejudice that Gypsies face on a daily basis.

Imagine the outcry if these remarks were made about a black or Jewish family.

I particularly liked the complaint that the presence of Gypsies would lead to "Increased Gypsy activity."


http://www.wearebarnsley.com/news/article/3987/complaints-made-about-gypsy-pitch-plans#.UnEstH2gJw8.gmail

[david3103]

This article, and the replies to it, are a good example of the prejudice that Gypsies face on a daily basis.

Imagine the outcry if these remarks were made about a black or Jewish family.

I particularly liked the complaint that the presence of Gypsies would lead to "Increased Gypsy activity."


http://www.wearebarnsley.com/news/article/3987/complaints-made-about-gypsy-pitch-plans#.UnEstH2gJw8.gmail

Sigh.

[millidonk]

I'm not the greatest model for English grammar and spelling but do they even have schools in Barnsley? I spent years working as an interpreter and struggled making sense out of some of those comments..

When reading the article I immediately thought to myself that I wouldn't be too happy if a Gypsy community decided to settle right next to my house, simply because I would expect house prices to fall. Then I thought would that definitely be the case?

After a bit of research:

Although it is from a council proposing a traveller site..

There is no evidence regarding the effect of permanent or transit sites on property prices. An independent study in Scotland by the Planning Exchange and the Joseph Rowntree Foundation found that although there were some claims that house prices would be affected, these proved hard to establish.
The study said a new home being built within 50m of the boundary of one site suggested the impact on the local housing market had been minimal.

Experiences in Leicestershire and other local authority areas do not show a reduction in property values.

Once a site is established and providing it is well managed, the fears of residents about the negative impact on their area were not borne out. In an area which is subject to regular incidents of unauthorised traveller encampments, provision of official sites could improve the situation.

Found a fair few individual instances where people said they can't sell due to Gypsy and Traveller sites but no conclusive research.

I think where I live it would cause a drop as prices went down when there was talk of opening a super dairy..but it wouldn't cause me to have any ill feeling towards individuals.

Does any of that make sense? Just trying to provide another pov.

[david3103]

I'm not the greatest model for English grammar and spelling but do they even have schools in Barnsley? I spent years working as an interpreter and struggled making sense out of some of those comments..

When reading the article I immediately thought to myself that I wouldn't be too happy if a Gypsy community decided to settle right next to my house, simply because I would expect house prices to fall. Then I thought would that definitely be the case?

After a bit of research:

Although it is from a council proposing a traveller site..

There is no evidence regarding the effect of permanent or transit sites on property prices. An independent study in Scotland by the Planning Exchange and the Joseph Rowntree Foundation found that although there were some claims that house prices would be affected, these proved hard to establish.
The study said a new home being built within 50m of the boundary of one site suggested the impact on the local housing market had been minimal.

Experiences in Leicestershire and other local authority areas do not show a reduction in property values.

Once a site is established and providing it is well managed, the fears of residents about the negative impact on their area were not borne out. In an area which is subject to regular incidents of unauthorised traveller encampments, provision of official sites could improve the situation.

Found a fair few individual instances where people said they can't sell due to Gypsy and Traveller sites but no conclusive research.

I think where I live it would cause a drop as prices went down when there was talk of opening a super dairy..but it wouldn't cause me to have any ill feeling towards individuals.

Does any of that make sense? Just trying to provide another pov.

sigh

would you have this issue with the building of a mosque in your street?

ok with a church?

how about a charity offering support for homeless men?

[millidonk]

I'm not the greatest model for English grammar and spelling but do they even have schools in Barnsley? I spent years working as an interpreter and struggled making sense out of some of those comments..

When reading the article I immediately thought to myself that I wouldn't be too happy if a Gypsy community decided to settle right next to my house, simply because I would expect house prices to fall. Then I thought would that definitely be the case?

After a bit of research:

Although it is from a council proposing a traveller site..

There is no evidence regarding the effect of permanent or transit sites on property prices. An independent study in Scotland by the Planning Exchange and the Joseph Rowntree Foundation found that although there were some claims that house prices would be affected, these proved hard to establish.
The study said a new home being built within 50m of the boundary of one site suggested the impact on the local housing market had been minimal.

Experiences in Leicestershire and other local authority areas do not show a reduction in property values.

Once a site is established and providing it is well managed, the fears of residents about the negative impact on their area were not borne out. In an area which is subject to regular incidents of unauthorised traveller encampments, provision of official sites could improve the situation.

Found a fair few individual instances where people said they can't sell due to Gypsy and Traveller sites but no conclusive research.

I think where I live it would cause a drop as prices went down when there was talk of opening a super dairy..but it wouldn't cause me to have any ill feeling towards individuals.

Does any of that make sense? Just trying to provide another pov.

sigh

would you have this issue with the building of a mosque in your street?

ok with a church?

how about a charity offering support for homeless men?

yeah. I would have an issue with anyone building anything if I thought it could affect my house price in a negative manner.

[RED-DOG]

That's a good honest post Milly.

People do worry that house prices will fall if a Gypsy site is built nearby, but even if it's true, it isn't right.

Not long ago, people used to worry that house prices would fall if blacks moved in next door.

FWIW For the most part I'm not a fan of big, obtrusive council built Gypsy sites. Before the 1968 Caravan sites act we used to have traditional stopping places where we would stay in small family groups. Bigger sites seem to foster a 'them and us' attitude imo.

Just as a point of interest, the resident of the village I live in now reacted to me in exactly the same way as the people in the linked story. That was 12 years ago. Non on the things they feared has happened.

[millidonk]

Glad you appreciate my honesty and whilst I agree that morally / culturally it isn't right, we are essentially talking about the value of my retirement pot here. I don't want that pot to go down under any circumstance nor do I wish to be forced to gamble with it!

If I am being completely honest I don't really have many first hand encounters with Gypsies / Travellers that I know of anyway. I haven't lived by a camp or if I have then I certainly wasn't aware of the fact. My encounters to date:
A group threatened me in a Chinese restaurant
I had friendly times with girl when the circus came to town in York
and knowing you online and in person, so swings and roundabouts really.

I have forgotten where I was going with this, I just remember that I planned to close with "Even though there are no negative feelings from me on an individual level, the fact that the majority's feelings could be enough to influence my house price is enough for me to be opposed to having a site built next door to me".

I think the underlining problem is multifaceted;  lack of education in general, Travellers not doing enough to show themselves in a positive light, old wives tales and the media.

[AndrewT]

There should be a Gypsy camp built at the end of every street if it makes houses a bit more affordable.

[RED-DOG]

Trick or treat?

Click to see full-size image.

[tikay]

There should be a Gypsy camp built at the end of every street if it makes houses a bit more affordable.

...and there is the wonderful Charlie Munger obverse thing in action.

Falling house prices are every bit a two way thing, there are buyers AND sellers involved.

[tikay]

Trick or treat?

Click to see full-size image.

Not sure what to say about that, Tom.

Radio 4 reported this morning that Halloween related retail sales were £12 million in 2001, & this year exceeded £300 million. Allegedly, the third most popular annual "festival" in the retail world now, after, presumably, Xmas & Easter. The recession is clearly biting, then.

Personally, I think it's all bollox. I even had to wear horns on the Show last night, ffs. It struck me as a sort of weird juxtaposition with the Poppy I was wearing.

[Redsgirl]

Yes, Tony, but we got free sweets!

[tikay]

Yes, Tony, but we got free sweets!

Ooohhh. Now I get it.

Is Dad still pleasingly plump & annoyingly argumentative?