Vagueness and the Aftermath - A sporadic diary

[RED-DOG]

This question has been occupying me for a while.

Why do atheists try to avoid death?

Because our time here is all we have so dying, although ultimatley unavoidable, is something to be put off as long as possible.

That's the crux of the issue. The instant death happens, it doesn't matter, so why put it off?

The minute you have the slightest problem, why not just step in front of a train. Problem solved.

That makes sense if an indeterminate length of time of 'bad' is worse than everlasting nothingness

It doesn't make sense when bad is still better than nothing

But surely the term "better than nothing" is only relevant while you're alive.

And that is the state we currently find ourselves in... 

But why do we make an effort to remain in that state? Is it purely instinctive?

[Jon MW]

This question has been occupying me for a while.

Why do atheists try to avoid death?

Because our time here is all we have so dying, although ultimatley unavoidable, is something to be put off as long as possible.

That's the crux of the issue. The instant death happens, it doesn't matter, so why put it off?

The minute you have the slightest problem, why not just step in front of a train. Problem solved.

That makes sense if an indeterminate length of time of 'bad' is worse than everlasting nothingness

It doesn't make sense when bad is still better than nothing

But surely the term "better than nothing" is only relevant while you're alive.

And that is the state we currently find ourselves in... 

But why do we make an effort to remain in that state? Is it purely instinctive?

errrrm I thought that was already covered - it's the complete opposite of instinctive, we can make the conscious decision or calculation whether we think our current state is better or worse than nothing and act accordingly.

[Tal]

Thought the other VATA thread was for all this existentialist pondering and nuanced, intellectual debate and this thread was for pictures of things?

Entertain your masses, dammit!

[RED-DOG]

This question has been occupying me for a while.

Why do atheists try to avoid death?

Because our time here is all we have so dying, although ultimatley unavoidable, is something to be put off as long as possible.

That's the crux of the issue. The instant death happens, it doesn't matter, so why put it off?

The minute you have the slightest problem, why not just step in front of a train. Problem solved.

That makes sense if an indeterminate length of time of 'bad' is worse than everlasting nothingness

It doesn't make sense when bad is still better than nothing

But surely the term "better than nothing" is only relevant while you're alive.

And that is the state we currently find ourselves in... 

But why do we make an effort to remain in that state? Is it purely instinctive?

errrrm I thought that was already covered - it's the complete opposite of instinctive, we can make the conscious decision or calculation whether we think our current state is better or worse than nothing and act accordingly.

I'm only just managing to grasp what you are saying, but it seems to me that you are seeing nothing as a thing that can be experienced and compared to something.

[AndrewT]

This question has been occupying me for a while.

Why do atheists try to avoid death?

Because our time here is all we have so dying, although ultimatley unavoidable, is something to be put off as long as possible.

That's the crux of the issue. The instant death happens, it doesn't matter, so why put it off?

The minute you have the slightest problem, why not just step in front of a train. Problem solved.

That makes sense if an indeterminate length of time of 'bad' is worse than everlasting nothingness

It doesn't make sense when bad is still better than nothing

But surely the term "better than nothing" is only relevant while you're alive.

And that is the state we currently find ourselves in... 

But why do we make an effort to remain in that state? Is it purely instinctive?

Evolution would, for obvious reasons, favour individuals who didn't kill themselves at the drop of a hat. We're unlikely to be the descendants of those that did, therefore the drive to stay alive will be in our genes.

[RED-DOG]

This question has been occupying me for a while.

Why do atheists try to avoid death?

Because our time here is all we have so dying, although ultimatley unavoidable, is something to be put off as long as possible.

That's the crux of the issue. The instant death happens, it doesn't matter, so why put it off?

The minute you have the slightest problem, why not just step in front of a train. Problem solved.

That makes sense if an indeterminate length of time of 'bad' is worse than everlasting nothingness

It doesn't make sense when bad is still better than nothing

But surely the term "better than nothing" is only relevant while you're alive.

And that is the state we currently find ourselves in... 

But why do we make an effort to remain in that state? Is it purely instinctive?

Evolution would, for obvious reasons, favour individuals who didn't kill themselves at the drop of a hat. We're unlikely to be the descendants of those that did, therefore the drive to stay alive will be in our genes.

So now that our brains have evolved to the point where they can handle such complex concepts as the inevitability of death and the fact that when it arrives, it will be just as if we, or for that matter the entire universe, never existed. Why do we then still strive to avoid it?

[nirvana]

Dear Red, this isn't that complex. People try to avoid it cause they enjoy what they have today. It's a bit like having £5 mill and deciding to spin to win er..don't know.. or lose £5 mill.

[Jon MW]

This question has been occupying me for a while.

Why do atheists try to avoid death?

Because our time here is all we have so dying, although ultimatley unavoidable, is something to be put off as long as possible.

That's the crux of the issue. The instant death happens, it doesn't matter, so why put it off?

The minute you have the slightest problem, why not just step in front of a train. Problem solved.

That makes sense if an indeterminate length of time of 'bad' is worse than everlasting nothingness

It doesn't make sense when bad is still better than nothing

But surely the term "better than nothing" is only relevant while you're alive.

And that is the state we currently find ourselves in... 

But why do we make an effort to remain in that state? Is it purely instinctive?

errrrm I thought that was already covered - it's the complete opposite of instinctive, we can make the conscious decision or calculation whether we think our current state is better or worse than nothing and act accordingly.

I'm only just managing to grasp what you are saying, but it seems to me that you are seeing nothing as a thing that can be experienced and compared to something.

More that nothing is a concept that can be evaluated and have a value placed on it

But I do like Nirvana's explanation

[RED-DOG]

Dear Red, this isn't that complex. People try to avoid it cause they enjoy what they have today. It's a bit like having £5 mill and deciding to spin to win er..don't know.. or lose £5 mill.

But what if you were safe and secure in the knowledge that at the very second you lose that £5 mill, it ceases to matter?

[Jon MW]

It matters at the point when you make the decision

EDIT: so it's irrelevant that it won't matter after - people only exist chronologically

[Claw75]

This question has been occupying me for a while.

Why do atheists try to avoid death?

Surely the opposite question is more appropriate - if heaven is so great, why don't religious people kill themselves so they go to heaven today?

Isn't committing suicide a fast-track to hell in most religions (it certainly is for christian religions)?

I'm an atheist.  I'm not scared of dying, bascially for the 'it will cease to matter' reasons, but that doesn't mean I don't want to carry on enjoying living whilst I'm here.  The main reason I try to avoid dying, apart from the survival instinct aspect, is because I want to be with the people I love, I want to experience things with them, and I hope they want me around too.  To be honest, if I had zero family and friends, I probably wouldn't give two hoots whether I survive beyond tomorrow.

[celtic]

Dying isn't all bad.

If I had died yesterday I would have missed the last few pages...

[redarmi]

Isn't hope the reason atheists try to stop dying.  Irrespective of how bad things are we have the hope that they will get better.  There is an element of promise in the future.  If, as atheists, we don't try not to die we forgo that potential.  essentially there is an opportunity cost to dying therefore to die would not be to act rationally.

[RED-DOG]

So anyway....

For us atheists, the time after out death is of no more consequence than the time before our births. We simply don't exist.

Well, that's not quite true I don't suppose. The atoms that eventually became us existed before out birth, and they will still exist after we die.

Now given the fact that those atoms are going to float around the cosmos for ever, doesn't the law of averages mean that eventually, they will come together in exactly the same configuration and become me again?   

[kinboshi]

No, entropy is the key here.