Vagueness and the Aftermath - A sporadic diary

[david3103]

Our 1yr old Spaniel has similar traits, although not quite to that extreme.

I take two balls and she'll drop one part way back to me in anticipation of chasing the second.

But if I sit down she brings the ball to my feet. Then, occasionally she'll decide to fetch the ball I threw last, only to drop it somewhere and present me with the other one.

She is very possessive of her ball when other dogs are around although she's very sociable why no ball is involved.

[Rod Paradise]

My wee mutt Kerry is half border, half patterdale, she's much the same, she brings the ball back, but the last bit of handing over doesn't work for her. You can actually lift her up by lifting the ball - she won't let go.

I find grabbing the scruff of her neck while taking the ball helps her let go - I'm guessing it reminds her who the boss is - the mother dog grabs the scruff of pups to carry them about but also as a mild rebuke.

[RED-DOG]

My wee mutt Kerry is half border, half patterdale, she's much the same, she brings the ball back, but the last bit of handing over doesn't work for her. You can actually lift her up by lifting the ball - she won't let go.

I find grabbing the scruff of her neck while taking the ball helps her let go - I'm guessing it reminds her who the boss is - the mother dog grabs the scruff of pups to carry them about but also as a mild rebuke.

The easiest way to make a dog let go is to hold it's muzzle between your fingers and thumb and gently press it's lips against it's teeth, gradually increasing pressure until it's mouth opens.

However, the aim of this exercise is to make the dog want to let go.

[Rod Paradise]

My wee mutt Kerry is half border, half patterdale, she's much the same, she brings the ball back, but the last bit of handing over doesn't work for her. You can actually lift her up by lifting the ball - she won't let go.

I find grabbing the scruff of her neck while taking the ball helps her let go - I'm guessing it reminds her who the boss is - the mother dog grabs the scruff of pups to carry them about but also as a mild rebuke.

The easiest way to make a dog let go is to hold it's muzzle between your fingers and thumb and gently press it's lips against it's teeth, gradually increasing pressure until it's mouth opens.

However, the aim of this exercise is to make the dog want to let go.

True, I was more sympathising with Tighty as the border type terriers are a bit headstrong from what I've seen.

Personally I pick my battles - folks got her when I was still living in Glasgow, 2 weeks after they got her my Dad got a deep knee infection from a keyhole op, and was bed-ridden for weeks, and not up to walking the dog for months. So Kerry didn't get trained right. I've spent years working with her, to the point that I can walk her off the lead (away from traffic) and am confident she will come back to me - even when she puts up a hare - which used to be the cue for a dog heading out of sight over the hill. She's more my dog, I'm the boss & I walk her daily, but if she chooses to playfully challenge over a thrown tennis ball - I can live with that.

[TightEnd]

However, the aim of this exercise is to make the dog want to let go.

yes please, I am all ears

I am reminded of another thing to ask you

She's in the living room, which has two small sideboards in it. You can barely put a hand under the sideboard. She finds a ball, lies down by the sideboard and stuffs the ball from her mouth under it

then sits there, stares at you and whimpers if ignored. Softly, louder, softly again then louder

You (anyone, not just me) eventually give in, get the ball out, and she fetches it

She then immediately returns to the same place and does the same thing again. Repeat ad infinitum unless you remove her from the room and prevent her doing it

I think I am being trolled by a border terrier. If it wasn't so annoying it would be funny 

[Rod Paradise]

However, the aim of this exercise is to make the dog want to let go.

yes please, I am all ears

I am reminded of another thing to ask you

She's in the living room, which has two small sideboards in it. You can barely put a hand under the sideboard. She finds a ball, lies down by the sideboard and stuffs the ball from her mouth under it

then sits there, stares at you and whimpers if ignored. Softly, louder, softly again then louder

You (anyone, not just me) eventually give in, get the ball out, and she fetches it

She then immediately returns to the same place and does the same thing again. Repeat ad infinitum unless you remove her from the room and prevent her doing it

I think I am being trolled by a border terrier. If it wasn't so annoying it would be funny 

Sounds like t - Kerry would now and again push over some border edging my dad had at the edge of her toilet area, so he shortened her lead by enough that she couldn't shove them over... One day when she'd been put outside to give peace when my Mum had visitors Dad watched her go to the end of the lead, turn round extending her reach and back-kick the edgers over - he knocked the window after she'd done the first one, she looked him square in the eye and then did the rest....

[RED-DOG]

However, the aim of this exercise is to make the dog want to let go.

yes please, I am all ears

I am reminded of another thing to ask you

She's in the living room, which has two small sideboards in it. You can barely put a hand under the sideboard. She finds a ball, lies down by the sideboard and stuffs the ball from her mouth under it

then sits there, stares at you and whimpers if ignored. Softly, louder, softly again then louder

You (anyone, not just me) eventually give in, get the ball out, and she fetches it

She then immediately returns to the same place and does the same thing again. Repeat ad infinitum unless you remove her from the room and prevent her doing it

I think I am being trolled by a border terrier. If it wasn't so annoying it would be funny 

Haha. I love it.

She's learned, through some happy (or unfortunate) accident, that if she puts the ball under the sideboard and whimpers, someone will take it out and throw it for her. You can easily imagine the initial scenario, she loses her ball under the sideboard and whimpers in frustration, someone gets it out and throws it for her, a few days later it happens again and BOOM! she makes the connection.


Surprisingly. there may be a similar thing going on when she hangs on to the ball. Instinct makes her hang on to it, but she may also associate hanging on to it with you throwing it for her. In her mind, it's a win win situation.

1 You try to get the ball from her, this is a great game which feeds her possessive instinct.

2 You force her to let go and then you throw it for her, this is a great game which feeds her chase instinct. Either way, her best bet is to chase the ball and then hang on to it. (Unless you ignore her of course, at which point she can put it under the sideboard).

[sovietsong]

Billie does the ball thing, i've given up trying to change it, if i sit still on a park bench for example she will drop the ball but if i'm walking & i throw it for her she will go & get it then come back to me, drop it & if you try & get it back she quickly grabs it & runs away... she loves it!

On the whole though she is a fantastic dog & really well behaved which is mainly down to this thread & Evil Pie who was incredibly helpful when Billie was a pup.

[david3103]

Billie does the ball thing, i've given up trying to change it, if i sit still on a park bench for example she will drop the ball but if i'm walking & i throw it for her she will go & get it then come back to me, drop it & if you try & get it back she quickly grabs it & runs away... she loves it!

On the whole though she is a fantastic dog & really well behaved which is mainly down to this thread & Evil Pie who was incredibly helpful when Billie was a pup.

it's very reassuring to know we're not the only ones :-)

[sovietsong]

It's so funny that so many people have had the same issue!

[RedFox]

Billie does the ball thing, i've given up trying to change it, if i sit still on a park bench for example she will drop the ball but if i'm walking & i throw it for her she will go & get it then come back to me, drop it & if you try & get it back she quickly grabs it & runs away... she loves it!

On the whole though she is a fantastic dog & really well behaved which is mainly down to this thread & Evil Pie who was incredibly helpful when Billie was a pup.

it's very reassuring to know we're not the only ones :-)

Me too as I have a lovely working cocker who loves to chase and retrieve her ball but also will not give me a chance to pick it up before snatching it.

She is trained to a degree and will do most of my bidding.

Alas one of her headstrong wilful ways is when weve gone out in the car to a walk she will refuse to come back to me at the end of the walk if she see the car, as she knows the walk has ended, although she comes when recalled at any other time.

We end up having to ensure shes on the lead before the car is in sight.

Im sure this could be sorted but I never seem have the time to do retrain her.

Any help appreciated.

Cheers

[RED-DOG]

Listen to this. Let me know what you think.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04jj113

[RED-DOG]

Billie does the ball thing, i've given up trying to change it, if i sit still on a park bench for example she will drop the ball but if i'm walking & i throw it for her she will go & get it then come back to me, drop it & if you try & get it back she quickly grabs it & runs away... she loves it!

On the whole though she is a fantastic dog & really well behaved which is mainly down to this thread & Evil Pie who was incredibly helpful when Billie was a pup.

it's very reassuring to know we're not the only ones :-)

Me too as I have a lovely working cocker who loves to chase and retrieve her ball but also will not give me a chance to pick it up before snatching it.

She is trained to a degree and will do most of my bidding.

Alas one of her headstrong wilful ways is when weve gone out in the car to a walk she will refuse to come back to me at the end of the walk if she see the car, as she knows the walk has ended, although she comes when recalled at any other time.

We end up having to ensure shes on the lead before the car is in sight.

Im sure this could be sorted but I never seem have the time to do retrain her.

Any help appreciated.

Cheers

Not coming to you when she knows it means her walk has ended just shows intelligence. Every time you call her and she gets away with not coming you are teaching her that she doesn't have to.

When you are within sight of the car, call her once and then wait, she will come to you eventually. When she does, make a fuss of her or give her a small treat and let her go, walk away from the car. Rinse- repeat.

Call her several times each walk, especially when you are near the car. try to call her when she is coming to you anyway. If she doesn't come, don't continue to call her.

At least four fifths of the recalls should result in a positive experience for her. After enough successful recalls with no failures, she will forget that she has the option of not coming.

[RedFox]

Not coming to you when she knows it means her walk has ended just shows intelligence. Every time you call her and she gets away with not coming you are teaching her that she doesn't have to.

When you are within sight of the car, call her once and then wait, she will come to you eventually. When she does, make a fuss of her or give her a small treat and let her go, walk away from the car. Rinse- repeat.

Call her several times each walk, especially when you are near the car. try to call her when she is coming to you anyway. If she doesn't come, don't continue to call her.

At least four fifths of the recalls should result in a positive experience for her. After enough successful recalls with no failures, she will forget that she has the option of not coming.
[/quote]

Thanks Red.

She is a bright wee thing and has me wrapped around her little claws.

Ive tried to do what you suggest in the past but never gone through with it due to lack of patience

I will make time now and hope to see the results soon.

Cheers

[celtic]

However, the aim of this exercise is to make the dog want to let go.

yes please, I am all ears

I am reminded of another thing to ask you

She's in the living room, which has two small sideboards in it. You can barely put a hand under the sideboard. She finds a ball, lies down by the sideboard and stuffs the ball from her mouth under it

then sits there, stares at you and whimpers if ignored. Softly, louder, softly again then louder

You (anyone, not just me) eventually give in, get the ball out, and she fetches it

She then immediately returns to the same place and does the same thing again. Repeat ad infinitum unless you remove her from the room and prevent her doing it

I think I am being trolled by a border terrier. If it wasn't so annoying it would be funny 

Haha. I love it.

She's learned, through some happy (or unfortunate) accident, that if she puts the ball under the sideboard and whimpers, someone will take it out and throw it for her. You can easily imagine the initial scenario, she loses her ball under the sideboard and whimpers in frustration, someone gets it out and throws it for her, a few days later it happens again and BOOM! she makes the connection.


Surprisingly. there may be a similar thing going on when she hangs on to the ball. Instinct makes her hang on to it, but she may also associate hanging on to it with you throwing it for her. In her mind, it's a win win situation.

1 You try to get the ball from her, this is a great game which feeds her possessive instinct.

2 You force her to let go and then you throw it for her, this is a great game which feeds her chase instinct. Either way, her best bet is to chase the ball and then hang on to it. (Unless you ignore her of course, at which point she can put it under the sideboard).

Or you could get rid of the sideboards?