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Author Topic: Vagueness and the Aftermath - A sporadic diary  (Read 4425422 times)
s.tahcker
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« Reply #3885 on: September 08, 2008, 11:20:13 AM »

I played it even worse than i first thought.What was i thinking?lol.The fact was i wasnt.Anyway its all good and it will be interesting next time you raise me.If i ever play a 300 again.
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« Reply #3886 on: September 09, 2008, 12:59:26 PM »

putting wild birds in cages seems cruel to me. is it legal?




The following is meant to be an explanation and perhaps mitigation, but not justification.

For hundreds of years, Gypsies have been catching and caging wild birds. It’s a traditional practice and a skill that has been passed down from generation to generation. This doesn’t mean that all Gypsies can do it, or even want to. My dad did it, but his father did not. I did it, but my brothers did not.

The point is, it was something that had always happened, it was part of out lives. We grew up with it and, as is often the case in that situation, we didn’t stop to question it.

In 1954, the protection of birds act, along with various other legislation, made it illegal (with certain exceptions) to
·   Intentionally kill, injure or take any wild bird
·   Intentionally take, damage or destroy the nest of any wild bird whilst it is in use or being built
·   Intentionally take or destroy the egg of any wild bird
·   Have in one's possession or control any wild bird, dead or alive, or any part of a wild bird, which has been taken in contravention of the Act or the Protection of Birds Act 1954
·   Have in one's possession or control any egg or part of an egg which has been taken in contravention of the Protection of Birds Act 1954.

At that time, we were for the most part unaware of the new legislation, and, perhaps of more relevance, we were Gypsies, and according to the powers that be, everything we did was illegal. We couldn’t rely on the authorities to tell us right from wrong. If we were to stop doing traditional things just because someone told us it was illegal, we would very quickly have ceased to exist.

From a personal point of view, bird catching, like hunting, only served to increase my love and respect for nature. To be successful I had to learn about the wildlife, it’s habits and it’s habitat. I had to understand their ways, their needs and their instincts. As came understanding, so came admiration.

The animals I killed and ate back then had an immeasurably better life and death than the intensively farmed and slaughtered, cellophane wrapped supermarket shelf ones that I eat today.

If you catch and cage a wild bird in the summer, it will almost certainly die because it won’t eat. I only ever caught birds in the winter when finding enough to eat is a major battle for them and a large percentage starve to death in the wild anyway. Birds caught in winter are eating within the hour and if released after a couple of days will often try to get back into the cage.

I don’t hunt these days, and I have come to the conclusion that on balance, I would rather see a wild goldfinch sitting on the head of a thistle than have it in a cage.


I wouldn’t change anything though. Poachers make the best gamekeepers.




 Click to see full-size image.

« Last Edit: September 09, 2008, 01:06:28 PM by RED-DOG » Logged

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technolog
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« Reply #3887 on: September 09, 2008, 01:07:06 PM »

Fair comment.
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« Reply #3888 on: September 09, 2008, 02:15:49 PM »

It only seems like minutes since the beginning of spring when I posted a picture of these leaves as new buds.

I took this yesterday. Winter draws on.


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« Reply #3889 on: September 09, 2008, 02:18:05 PM »

Hang on, I am still waiting for Summer !
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« Reply #3890 on: September 09, 2008, 02:22:23 PM »

Walk near us this weekend saw this outside a church Tongue
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« Reply #3891 on: September 09, 2008, 02:29:33 PM »

That's a great pic.

Was it in the churchyard?

Is the top part wood?
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« Reply #3892 on: September 09, 2008, 02:36:43 PM »

It's here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leathley

But i have noticed alot of them in villages close to me to.

for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Rigton has one at the centre of the village 20 yards from the church.


Its wood yes, I assume replaced a number of times over the years. I didn't have chance to see if there was any writing on it as we popped into the church for cover and a look around. It was just at the entrance to the church grounds.

Did all villages have these for people who committed acts of crime?
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« Reply #3893 on: September 09, 2008, 02:48:41 PM »

Ahh! North Yorkshire. One of the most beautiful places in the world
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« Reply #3894 on: September 09, 2008, 02:51:13 PM »

Tom - I was listening to a programme on local BBC radio this week which I think is broadcast all over the local counties area about Gypsies.

Talked about how in some areas the children are now attending school beyond the age of 11 and some are going on to further education and getting degrees. One school in the west contry has over 20% of the children from the Gypsy community and the headmaster was very complimentary about the kids, as they respect their parents, are loved by their parents, come from a very close community and look after their siblings very well. It seemed to be that the emphasis was on getting them into 'mainstream' education while also studying Gypsy traditions etc (going on Gypsy caravan trips etc) to respect and keep their Gypsy heritage alive.

They also cited one of the reasons why many children didn't go to secondary school was fear from the Gypsy community of the children being too far away from them on a 'big hill' somewhere. As this programme is put together by Gypsys I was surprised at what i thought was a condescending comment.  

What are your thoughts on this? Do you think that the Gypsy community can survive as it is or does it need to embrace a more modern world? Will this dilute the community? (Please reply on your laptop during a break from on line poker!)

Thanks.
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« Reply #3895 on: September 09, 2008, 03:19:30 PM »

What are your thoughts on this? Do you think that the Gypsy community can survive as it is or does it need to embrace a more modern world? Will this dilute the community?

No. We can't survive without change, no community can.

I gave a talk to a group of trainee policemen once and a senior officer asked me how, when we are scattered around the country, do I manage to keep in touch with my extended family. I told him that I ring them up on my mobile phone. In another instance, just recently someone said to me, "If you're a real Gypsy, where's your horse and cart?"

It's a difficult balance Trace. Our children do need education and they need schooling, but we're not foolish enough to confuse the two. I have an education, but I didn't get it at school.

Alas, the community is constantly being diluted. As the old song goes...

All you free born men of the travelling people
Every tinker, rolling stone and Gypsy rover
Winds of change are blowing, old ways are going.
Your travelling days will soon be over.

There is a very fine line between integration and assimilation.




PS-  (Please reply on your laptop during a break from on line poker!) This bit whooshed me.
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« Reply #3896 on: September 09, 2008, 03:38:43 PM »

What are your thoughts on this? Do you think that the Gypsy community can survive as it is or does it need to embrace a more modern world? Will this dilute the community?

No. We can't survive without change, no community can.

I gave a talk to a group of trainee policemen once and a senior officer asked me how, when we are scattered around the country, do I manage to keep in touch with my extended family. I told him that I ring them up on my mobile phone. In another instance, just recently someone said to me, "If you're a real Gypsy, where's your horse and cart?"

It's a difficult balance Trace. Our children do need education and they need schooling, but we're not foolish enough to confuse the two. I have an education, but I didn't get it at school.

Alas, the community is constantly being diluted. As the old song goes...

All you free born men of the travelling people
Every tinker, rolling stone and Gypsy rover
Winds of change are blowing, old ways are going.
Your travelling days will soon be over.

There is a very fine line between integration and assimilation.

PS-  [i](Please reply on your laptop during a break from on line poker!)[/i] This bit whooshed me.[/u]

I was being ironic - talking about keeping old traditions while on the computer...

I was a bit confused by the programme because it was put together by Gypsies and they seemd to be encouraging further education etc. I knew that you were a fan of education in the real world. I guess I thought that everyone thought the same within the community.

Personally I think that dilution of the community would be a great shame. The reverance with which this headteacher talked about his Gypsy children was fantastic. It's almost like the world has turned and now what was (unfortunately but I'm talking honestly here) the unwelcome children in school are now the ones that are the best behaved and the teachers enjoy teaching rather than the ignorant and rude kids.
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« Reply #3897 on: September 09, 2008, 04:59:33 PM »

My boys went to a small village school in Caverswall and they has stocks beneath the tree in the square. It also has a castle, click link to view.



http://www.francisfrith.com/search/england/staffordshire/caverswall/photos/caverswall_photos.htm
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« Reply #3898 on: September 09, 2008, 05:01:59 PM »

I was a bit confused by the programme because it was put together by Gypsies and they seemd to be encouraging further education etc. I knew that you were a fan of education in the real world. I guess I thought that everyone thought the same within the community.

I certainly don't discourage further education for those who wish or require it. I just don't happen to think that it is the holy grail it's cracked up to be, well not for everyone anyway.

IMHO Children who spend all of their formative years at school miss out on a lot of life's other lessons and are heavily influenced by their peers at a time when they should be being influenced by their parents. It doesn't take 11 years to teach the average school leaver what the average school leaver knows.
 
Mine is just one opinion, as is that of the Gypsy programme maker. It is a mistake to assume that everyone within any community will think the same, although if you were to do a survey (And we have) you will actually find that most Gypsies share my view rather than that of the ones you heard on the programme.


That was a great question Trace, I always find you very stimulating. Thank you.
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« Reply #3899 on: September 09, 2008, 05:18:20 PM »

My boys went to a small village school in Caverswall and they has stocks beneath the tree in the square. It also has a castle, click link to view.



http://www.francisfrith.com/search/england/staffordshire/caverswall/photos/caverswall_photos.htm


I wonder when they stopped using the stocks, or if there is a record of who was the last person in there.

What do you think about the idea of bringing them back, say as a punishment for antisocial behaviour like joy riding or vandalism?

Do you think it would be a good deterrent?
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