Vagueness and the Aftermath - A sporadic diary

[AndrewT]

Famine resistant.

[Snatiramas]

Famine resistant.

Ooooh quite like that one

[RED-DOG]

So I was going to school, but that didn’t mean that I was excused work.

These days, Gypsy children are still encouraged to “work” or help with whatever task needs doing. They are given as much responsibility as they can handle, and made to feel that their contribution is valuable and important. It’s no longer really so much about needing their help, as it is about teaching them to be self reliant and confident in their abilities.

That being said, all my girls have done a year or two with me. Going out in the lorry every day, lending a hand with whatever job I happened to be doing. Their help was invaluable, but more than that, it was a special time in all of our lives, a time of learning, and a time of bonding. They learned that the world owes you nothing, but if you work hard enough for it, you can have anything. They bonded with me, and they bonded with each other. They bonded with a way of life that would now last for at least one more generation

Back when I was 7, everyone in the family did as much as possible because it was necessary. Times were hard, and money was scarce. Most Gypsy families were very poor, and we were no exception. I’m not complaining, as youngsters we were well fed and well loved. We were not unduly burdened by the harsh realities of poverty, but spare money, or what these days would be termed “Disposable income” did not exist. Before I move on, let me quote you this little example….

[Rod Paradise]

Red, I noticed an article in the Scots papers that may interest you: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/lifestyle/real-life-stories/2008/02/21/it-s-one-thing-to-take-children-from-a-family-but-they-did-this-to-kill-our-way-of-life-86908-20326051/

It's about an appology being sought for the forcing of traveller kids into care in Scotland from before the World Wars until the 60's.

[boldie]

Red, I noticed an article in the Scots papers that may interest you: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/lifestyle/real-life-stories/2008/02/21/it-s-one-thing-to-take-children-from-a-family-but-they-did-this-to-kill-our-way-of-life-86908-20326051/

It's about an appology being sought for the forcing of traveller kids into care in Scotland from before the World Wars until the 60's.

jesus

[Rod Paradise]

jesus

I know - the Scots self-image of 'all Jock Tamson's bairns' doesn't hold up to scrutiny too well sometimes, there's a lot of antipathy to other cutures at times

[hans47]

It is strange how the same thing can happen all over the world and the same mistakes are made in canada they use to do that with native indian children!

[boldie]

jesus

I know - the Scots self-image of 'all Jock Tamson's bairns' doesn't hold up to scrutiny too well sometimes, there's a lot of antipathy to other cutures at times

It's the same everywhere, mate. I was only tought in school about how horrible the Germans were in WW2. Hardly a word about 90% of the Dutch being sympathetic to the Germans at the time and absolutely nothing about our own colonial past and what we did in Indonesia.

[RED-DOG]

Red, I noticed an article in the Scots papers that may interest you: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/lifestyle/real-life-stories/2008/02/21/it-s-one-thing-to-take-children-from-a-family-but-they-did-this-to-kill-our-way-of-life-86908-20326051/

It's about an appology being sought for the forcing of traveller kids into care in Scotland from before the World Wars until the 60's.

Horrific stuff eh Rod?.

People just don't realise how much Gypsy people have been persecuted over the years. There was a time in in this country when it was common to be put to death for the crime of being a Gypsy. Countless thousands were given penal servitude.

Mrs Red's great great uncle, James Shaw, a bare knuckle prize fighter, (Big Jim Shaw will break your jaw) was transported, never to be seen again, leaving a wife and young family to fend for themselves.

Half a million Gypsies were rounded up and murdered during the Holocaust.

To this day, it is still not considered by most people to be politically incorrect to openly discriminate against Gypsies. Jack Straw called us "The scum of the earth" in open Parliament.

[steeveg]

i assume this happened everywhere throughout uk, i know it was still happening in liverpool in the late 50, it was the upper classes victorian values, unwed mothers who where finding it hard to cope would ask for short term help, and some evil gits sent there children to australia without even telling them, 1000s of children where put on boats to australia never to see there family again, when mothers or parents tried to trace there children later they where told no records of where children where sent where taken, lots of children where sexually abused and just used as slave labour,i imagine the arrogance of the upperclass ment they would  never ever feel any guilt on how they treated these children.

[77dave]

Hi Red

Excuse my ignorance but are you religious, is our whole family? what religion are you?

[RED-DOG]

Hi Red

Excuse my ignorance but are you religious, is our whole family? what religion are you?

No Jim, I'm not at all religious.

[Rod Paradise]

[Jack Straw called us "The scum of the earth" in open Parliament.

Pot/Kettle moment from Straw.

I seem to notice a lot more anti-traveller sentiment from my Irish friends. I don't know whether this is down to there being more travellers in Ireland or not. Apart from the people in charge of funfairs at the local Gala Days etc don't know that I've met a traveller in Scotland.

BTW I'm using traveller as there seems to be a distinction among my Irish mates between 'knackers' and gypsies, whether this is a genuine distinction or not I don't know.

[Laxie]

Living in Ireland, I can tell you that they do (rightly or wrongly) differentiate between the two.  It's a bit like 'settled' people having good and bad in their community, but with 'name tags'.   

[77dave]

Just to the poker gods then!!!

it seems to me Red alot of families and households around the country need to take a look and you and your family and follow your example. The area where i have just moved from the kids are just a nusinese to the parents and there answer is out of sight out of mind. The kids do whatever they want and the parents lets them and then defend them if they get into trouble. A sense of hardwork never did anyone any harm. I am in fact in favour of national service especially as im too old myself. If people had more pride in themselves and there community the world would be a better place. We all have our opinions of Americans but they are all proud of there nation and although they as a people dont believe in the wat they love there troops. You have told us Tom of how proud you are of were you come from if only that could be past on to others.

I had an American complaining at the table last night about immagrants coming into his country. Where does he think his family came from?

I have jumped around here a bit i think trying to make my point   but i think the bottom line is for me you cant beat the school of hard knocks and family looking out for each other