Vagueness and the Aftermath - A sporadic diary

[Jon MW]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16696347


According to this story, US Republican Mitt Romney earned 42 million in the last two years, from which he expects to pay about 6.2 million in taxes, which works out at 13.9%


His rival, a Mr Newt Gingrich, released his tax figures on Saturday, saying he paid nearly $1m last year, a rate of about 31%. Which, in his opinion at least, makes him a better candidate. (US elections are fought on such dirty issues).





What I want to know is, how much tax would a UK businessman be paying of 21 million per annum? Do we have anyone left who earns that much, (tikay doesn't count) or have they all buggered off to countries who understand that it's better to have 15% of everything than 90% of nothing?

The Republican party is the biggest lol in world politics.  They threaten to shut down the entire US government when Obama wants to cut down on tax breaks for the rich and then start moaning when a rich person doesn't pay much tax.

I know so little about politics dave, but the candidates seem to fight so dirty that they demean themselves in the process.

In general US politics is institutionally dirty/corrupt, but there are shades of grey to differentiate between candidates.

Gingrich is definitely on the darker end of the scale, he's made a lot of Romney being independently wealthy and how this is a bad thing, for example, Gingrich and his wife were worth about $7m the last time anybody looked - so he's not exactly poor.

[RED-DOG]

Just lately, I've been wrestling with the thorny issue of animal experimentation.

Not, I hasten to add, animal experimentation for the purpose of finding out more about the animal, nor for the purpose of testing cosmetics, but for the testing of drugs which might prevent human deaths or, more importantly, human suffering.

Is it OK in some situations?

Something else that clouds the issue, (for me at least). Does it make a difference if we are experimenting on fruit flies, goldfish, mice or monkeys?

I think it can be a necessary evil Red, as long as the people doing it have a conscience and care for the animals well. THere is a problem in that when you give some people power over others (animals or humans unfortunately) they end up abusive, that disgusts me.

My kid sister worked in cancer research and had to use mice to experiment on -  as an ex-veggie for conscience reasons, she struggled to come to terms with it. I know that her test mice had as good a life as she could give them - to the point of complaints her lab was more like a pet-store than a lab at times.

Some of her work  involved genetically engineered luminous tumours in hairless mice, meaning that instead of giving a huge number of mice tumours & killing so many daily to inspect the growth rates & hopefully, the tumour shrinkage after treatment, the tumour could be monitored without killing the mice, a big reduction in the amount to be tested on.

In a previous role she did discover a cure for HIV - unfortunately it killed the immune system anyway - so not really a big win....

That's why I've been wrestling with it Rod. So many blurred lines.....

[Doobs]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16696347


According to this story, US Republican Mitt Romney earned 42 million in the last two years, from which he expects to pay about 6.2 million in taxes, which works out at 13.9%


His rival, a Mr Newt Gingrich, released his tax figures on Saturday, saying he paid nearly $1m last year, a rate of about 31%. Which, in his opinion at least, makes him a better candidate. (US elections are fought on such dirty issues).





What I want to know is, how much tax would a UK businessman be paying of 21 million per annum? Do we have anyone left who earns that much, (tikay doesn't count) or have they all buggered off to countries who understand that it's better to have 15% of everything than 90% of nothing?

I am not sure if you were aware how good your timing was, I read this the other day

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/pay-as-little-tax-as-tony-blair.html

Tony Blair pays £315,000 tax on £12m, or less than 3%.  I know he has staff/expenses etc, but it still seems pretty light to me.

Seems Thatcher isn't the only one who believes there is no such thing as society*.

I'd be surprised if many of our super rich pay anything near 31%, though it would be hard to find figures to back this up.

Doobs

* I think there is some dispute as to whether she actually said this.  I removed some more text, as we probably don't need political discussions here.

[RED-DOG]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16696347


According to this story, US Republican Mitt Romney earned 42 million in the last two years, from which he expects to pay about 6.2 million in taxes, which works out at 13.9%


His rival, a Mr Newt Gingrich, released his tax figures on Saturday, saying he paid nearly $1m last year, a rate of about 31%. Which, in his opinion at least, makes him a better candidate. (US elections are fought on such dirty issues).





What I want to know is, how much tax would a UK businessman be paying of 21 million per annum? Do we have anyone left who earns that much, (tikay doesn't count) or have they all buggered off to countries who understand that it's better to have 15% of everything than 90% of nothing?

I am not sure if you were aware how good your timing was, I read this the other day

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/pay-as-little-tax-as-tony-blair.html

Tony Blair pays £315,000 tax on £12m, or less than 3%.  I know he has staff/expenses etc, but it still seems pretty light to me.

Seems Thatcher isn't the only one who believes there is no such thing as society*.

I'd be surprised if many of our super rich pay anything near 31%, though it would be hard to find figures to back this up.

Doobs

* I think there is some dispute as to whether she actually said this.  I removed some more text, as we probably don't need political discussions here.

Nope. I knew nothing of that when I posted. I would have thought the UK rate for the super-rich would be much higher than 31% though.

Political discussion is fine, so long as people discuss and debate in a calm and respectful fashion. (Which so far, touch wood, has been the case for most subjects, including religion, on this thread). In fact, I welcome the education. I'm such an innocent when it comes to politics.

[RED-DOG]

Tony posed me a question last week.

"Why wouldn't you want to attract pigeons to your bird table?"

I've been mulling it over, and I've decided that the answer lies in another question.

"Would you go on safari to see sheep?"

[Rod Paradise]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16696347


According to this story, US Republican Mitt Romney earned 42 million in the last two years, from which he expects to pay about 6.2 million in taxes, which works out at 13.9%


His rival, a Mr Newt Gingrich, released his tax figures on Saturday, saying he paid nearly $1m last year, a rate of about 31%. Which, in his opinion at least, makes him a better candidate. (US elections are fought on such dirty issues).





What I want to know is, how much tax would a UK businessman be paying of 21 million per annum? Do we have anyone left who earns that much, (tikay doesn't count) or have they all buggered off to countries who understand that it's better to have 15% of everything than 90% of nothing?

I am not sure if you were aware how good your timing was, I read this the other day

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/pay-as-little-tax-as-tony-blair.html

Tony Blair pays £315,000 tax on £12m, or less than 3%.  I know he has staff/expenses etc, but it still seems pretty light to me.

Seems Thatcher isn't the only one who believes there is no such thing as society*.

I'd be surprised if many of our super rich pay anything near 31%, though it would be hard to find figures to back this up.

Doobs

* I think there is some dispute as to whether she actually said this.  I removed some more text, as we probably don't need political discussions here.

Nope. I knew nothing of that when I posted. I would have thought the UK rate for the super-rich would be much higher than 31% though.

Political discussion is fine, so long as people discuss and debate in a calm and respectful fashion. (Which so far, touch wood, has been the case for most subjects, including religion, on this thread). In fact, I welcome the education. I'm such an innocent when it comes to politics.

Unfortunately there is a benefit to the Government in keeping the poorer fighting not be last, instead of all fighting for a fairer system.

We saw the big campaign on benefit fraud - when benefit fraud (and inefficiency) was found to be 3.1 billion a year in 2010 (despite the headlines the Fraud part was only £1.1 billion of that).

Unpaid taxes was found to be £42 billion in 2008/2009 - so where's that campaign?

[tikay]

Tony posed me a question last week.

"Why wouldn't you want to attract pigeons to your bird table?"

I've been mulling it over, and I've decided that the answer lies in another question.

"Would you go on safari to see sheep?"

Slight, but important, correction - or maybe not, as I am confused.

I was asking about, specifically, Wood Pigeons, as opposed to Common Pigeons. The difference between the two, physically, is quite marked, the Wood Pigeon being much plumper, a sort of Mitch Pigeon, with the Common being of more normal proportions.

The Common Pigeon - as I understand it - being what we see on railway stations, & they would, if human, be working-class, & very probably Millwall supporters. If animals, they would be sheep.

The Wood Pigeon is far more refined, posh, upper-class, & lives in places like Hampton Court, & supports Arsenal. In animal terms, a Polar Bear, maybe. Like, nice.

MY Pigeons are Wood Pigeons, obviously.

Now, to get to the point, google images clearly distinguishes between the two, but Wiki - font of all knowledgy things - only has a page for a "Common Wood Pigeon".

I am quite sure they are different species. Can anyone clarify?

[tikay]

Meanwhile, my posh Wood Pigeons are devouring a whole feeder of bird seed daily, but I've yet to see what I had hoped - Robins, Finches, Tits, etc.

I have a half coconut filled with fat, & that has been part pecked, but I have never seen by what. 

I'm really keen to attract a wider range of birdlife.

Might be a problem because the Thames is only 100 yards away, with lots of little islands, lush vegetation, & I would assume an abundance of natural food.

Please advise.

PS - To be fair, I don't mind the Wood Pigeons at all. They seem quite well-bahaved & refined. Tom was a bit sniffy about all pigeons, it seemed to me.

[RED-DOG]

Meanwhile, my posh Wood Pigeons are devouring a whole feeder of bird seed daily, but I've yet to see what I had hoped - Robins, Finches, Tits, etc.

I have a half coconut filled with fat, & that has been part pecked, but I have never seen by what. 

I'm really keen to attract a wider range of birdlife.

Might be a problem because the Thames is only 100 yards away, with lots of little islands, lush vegetation, & I would assume an abundance of natural food.

Please advise.

No such thing as an abundance of natural food in the UK during winter.

Put out the right type of food for the birds you want to attract and present it in such a way as to limit which species can access it. (Not always easy, but fun).


Loads of info on the web.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-566533/Robins-like-cheese-Blackbirds-eat-dog-food-What-REALLY-feeding-birds.html

[gatso]

feral pigeon is probs what you're looking for on wikipedia

[RED-DOG]

The Costa Concordia is dropping off the news radar now. I hate it when this happens with a story I'm interested in.

[RED-DOG]

Meanwhile, my posh Wood Pigeons are devouring a whole feeder of bird seed daily, but I've yet to see what I had hoped - Robins, Finches, Tits, etc.

I have a half coconut filled with fat, & that has been part pecked, but I have never seen by what. 

I'm really keen to attract a wider range of birdlife.

Might be a problem because the Thames is only 100 yards away, with lots of little islands, lush vegetation, & I would assume an abundance of natural food.

Please advise.

No such thing as an abundance of natural food in the UK during winter.

Put out the right type of food for the birds you want to attract and present it in such a way as to limit which species can access it. (Not always easy, but fun).


Loads of info on the web.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-566533/Robins-like-cheese-Blackbirds-eat-dog-food-What-REALLY-feeding-birds.html

If you want to present food to certain bird species, you have not only to become familiar with what they eat and how they eat it, you have to look at the way they fly / perch etc.

Tits for example can flip upside down to feed from the bottom of a peanut mesh. Robins can't.

[gatso]

the story of one of ken's not so great moment's as mayor of london

http://www.savethepigeons.org/background.html

[Dino]

Tikay,I think your top picture is a rock dove/pigeon, not a wood pigeon.

[Doobs]

Meanwhile, my posh Wood Pigeons are devouring a whole feeder of bird seed daily, but I've yet to see what I had hoped - Robins, Finches, Tits, etc.

I have a half coconut filled with fat, & that has been part pecked, but I have never seen by what. 

I'm really keen to attract a wider range of birdlife.

Might be a problem because the Thames is only 100 yards away, with lots of little islands, lush vegetation, & I would assume an abundance of natural food.

Please advise.

PS - To be fair, I don't mind the Wood Pigeons at all. They seem quite well-bahaved & refined. Tom was a bit sniffy about all pigeons, it seemed to me.

We bought one of these. 

http://www.charliesdirect.co.uk/products/the-nuttery-squirrel-proof-original-seed-feeder

They defeat the pigeons and squirrels, but unfortunately most of the tits and robins are too bird brained to use them. 

We still have a standard peanut feeder that is home to pigeons, sparrows, tits and squirrels.  The wood pigeons do a good job of mopping up the detrius that ends up on the floor.   That is preferable to rats.