Vagueness and the Aftermath - A sporadic diary

[Wardonkey]

I've dealt in theses kind of games and a dealer can only be as strong as the TD or supervisor. I've intervened and tried to enforce rules in games, only to end up frustrated at having no support from either players or staff. The most common response from those in charge being 'We've never enforced that rule here'.

In the end I decided that it wasn't worth the aggro and I just dealt the cards, announced the action and picked up my pittance at the end of week.

I was in a slightly different position from the other dealers (and indeed the cardroom supervisors), in that I had a greater knowledge of the game than average, but trying to change things was like swimming upstream in a piranha invested river, for the wage I got paid it simply wasn't worth the stress.

[dik9]

Amen

[sovietsong]

Nice post Mr Donkey

[ShatnerPants]

I've dealt in theses kind of games and a dealer can only be as strong as the TD or supervisor. I've intervened and tried to enforce rules in games, only to end up frustrated at having no support from either players or staff. The most common response from those in charge being 'We've never enforced that rule here'.

In the end I decided that it wasn't worth the aggro and I just dealt the cards, announced the action and picked up my pittance at the end of week.

I was in a slightly different position from the other dealers (and indeed the cardroom supervisors), in that I had a greater knowledge of the game than average, but trying to change things was like swimming upstream in a piranha invested river, for the wage I got paid it simply wasn't worth the stress.

Ok, so train the bloody TD then. 

Or is that just me being stooopid ?

[Karabiner]

DTD ftw

[sovietsong]

DTD ftw

+1

[Wardonkey]

I've dealt in theses kind of games and a dealer can only be as strong as the TD or supervisor. I've intervened and tried to enforce rules in games, only to end up frustrated at having no support from either players or staff. The most common response from those in charge being 'We've never enforced that rule here'.

In the end I decided that it wasn't worth the aggro and I just dealt the cards, announced the action and picked up my pittance at the end of week.

I was in a slightly different position from the other dealers (and indeed the cardroom supervisors), in that I had a greater knowledge of the game than average, but trying to change things was like swimming upstream in a piranha invested river, for the wage I got paid it simply wasn't worth the stress.

Ok, so train the bloody TD then. 

Or is that just me being stooopid ?

Who's going to train them?

The lack of knowledge within most casinos that offer poker is truly astonishing. Even if a staff member is well motivated the training they receive is often derisory. Mostly they are they expected to cope from their experience in dealing the game. They are given a handbook that was written many moons ago is incomplete with some bizarre rules. You then go one of two ways, you enforce the rules in the handbook to the letter and make the rest up as you go along, or you throw out the book and make it all up as you go along. Most people do just do it the same way they saw others before them doing it. Remember that until recently casino staff were not allowed to visit other casinos and would rarely have much, if any, experience of actually playing the game in a formal setting.

The most well motivated and talented will draw up new rules for the most common situations, they will use there own experience and consider the opinions of their colleagues and the players and other resources. They will try to establish a consistent and fair method of dealing with any other irregular problems that might occur. They will educate and train their staff often fighting for time and resources against other more profitable areas of the casino. They will gain the trust confidence of players and staff by using rational processes to make good decisions. All of this is relatively easy when establishing a new cardroom and relatively impossible when trying to change an established one.

[phatomch]

As a ex croupier/then TD , cardroom manager. it depends on each casino as to the back up that you got from managers, my managers decided that as  I was so high up in the poker scene and grosvenor ranks in poker that I only needed 2 days to teach people how to deal. Some managers were happy to devout time to the cardroom, others not so much.

Unfortunately poker generally makes no money for the casino's so they put the time and effort into other areas.

[tikay]

As a ex croupier/then TD , cardroom manager. it depends on each casino as to the back up that you got from managers, my managers decided that as  I was so high up in the poker scene and grosvenor ranks in poker that I only needed 2 days to teach people how to deal. Some managers were happy to devout time to the cardroom, others not so much.

Unfortunately poker generally makes no money for the casino's so they put the time and effort into other areas.

Therein lies part of the problem, & a great truth

The root of the problem is ignorance of the Rules & Etiquette by the players, & whilst it's the job of the Dealers & TD to "enforce", the Players must bear the major responsibility. We can't blame the Staff if the Punters act up! But the Staff do have a duty to keep good order.

[byronkincaid]

only 3 people have won big live and actually kept hold of the money. casino's make no money from poker. hmmmm.

it seems to me that in the old days in vegas the owners were happy to do certain things at a loss to get the billy's through the door knowing they would drop a load of money once they get them in. nowadays everything is a profit center and they have to make money from poker and food and drink and hotel rooms and cigarettes and whatever else used to be given out freely to keep people in action on the tables.

if someone wins a comp and loses all of it back at roulette, who gets the credit? the cardroom or the roulette department? it was funny reading the devilfish book, i was thinking the casino must really be rooting for certain people to win big cos they know they're prob gonna get all of that money themselves.

[RED-DOG]

only 3 people have won big live and actually kept hold of the money.

I'm interested in this statement Byron. What does it mean? Who are these people?

<Suspected whooshing>

[byronkincaid]

only 3 people have won big live and actually kept hold of the money.

I'm interested in this statement Byron. What does it mean? Who are these people?

<Suspected whooshing>

tikay's words in the top uk player thread

[RED-DOG]

Oh I see. Thank you.

Perhaps he will elaborate.

[tikay]

only 3 people have won big live and actually kept hold of the money. casino's make no money from poker. hmmmm.

it seems to me that in the old days in vegas the owners were happy to do certain things at a loss to get the billy's through the door knowing they would drop a load of money once they get them in. nowadays everything is a profit center and they have to make money from poker and food and drink and hotel rooms and cigarettes and whatever else used to be given out freely to keep people in action on the tables.

if someone wins a comp and loses all of it back at roulette, who gets the credit? the cardroom or the roulette department? it was funny reading the devilfish book, i was thinking the casino must really be rooting for certain people to win big cos they know they're prob gonna get all of that money themselves.

Hehe, well, as you know, & for the avoidance of doubt......what I mean't to say casinos do not make money directly from laying Poker Tourneys. Of course, there is money migration from poker winners to the wheel of death, I don't deny that. But that's the daft players fault, nobody compels them to lose it on House Games.

[tikay]

only 3 people have won big live and actually kept hold of the money.

I'm interested in this statement Byron. What does it mean? Who are these people?

<Suspected whooshing>

I said, if I recall correctly, that I cannot think, off the top of my head, or more than three (UK) players who have won big on the Circuit down the years, & hung on to that money. i.e., not "lost it back" at Poker, or diverted it to gaming leaks.

By "won", I mean net winnings. Note there are no, or very few, records or databases for "net winnings". They show "Winnings" but never "losings". Every player who ever cashed in a "Listed" Live Tourney is counted as a "Winner"!

Most of the "Faces" we hear so much about are generally boracic.

On reflection, the "three" may be a few more, but let's say less than two handfuls.