Seeing your neighbour's cards.

[GlasgowBandit]

a couple of the responses in this thread are truly lol funny. our opponent has made a mistake, not us so why do we now want to disadvantage ourselves. let's try another couple of examples.

-we're sat in the BB with 83o, it passes to the button who throws in a big chip meaning to raise but doesn't announce it so it goes as a call. which of the following actions do we take? a) check our option and take a flop hoping to hit or b) say that as the button obviously made a mistake we'll pass as that's what we would've done if his raise stood

-we see the river 3 handed and have the 2nd nuts. player a makes a bet which we fully intend to call, player b now mucks at which point player a turns his cards face up to reveal the nuts not realising we still have cards. do we a) thank our lucky stars and muck or b) call because that's what we were going to do and it wouldn't be fair to take advantage of our oppos mistake.

I'm assuming we all answer a) to both as we're not stupid. if our opponents make mistakes then we adapt to the new information, we don't make ourselves suffer because of them, it's not our mistake.

Good post.

[Sonic]

So what do you do if your the snooker player as mentioned in my earlier post and it's the deciding frame of the world championship 100k 1st prize 50k second, do you call the foul on yourself like 99.9% of pro snooker players or do you cheat and take the win at all costs attitude?

In snooker if you foul it is the referee's job to call it so by "cheating" in your example you are gaining from the referee's mistake, not your opponent's. The equivalent in poker is when a dealer flashes an opponents card as he is dealing, and I think you'll find that a lot of players who would exploit the QQ guy would point out the dealer's mistake.

[MANTIS01]

Many poker players such as T.J. Cloutier have mucked their cards after moving all-in then used their cupped hands to pretend they still have cards after realising the mistake. Cheating or fast thinking?

Playing fairly and taking advantage of opponents mistakes go hand in hand in poker. I do not want to win at any cost but I am not going to help my opponent beat me, why would I?

[relaedgc]

Cards should never be concealed as far as I am concerned, so I do think it's cheating.

[Ironside]

cheating is cheating in my books

i play poker for fun

when i stop having fun and start cheating because i have to win is the say i stop playing poker and look for another hobby

[gatso]

So what do you do if your the snooker player as mentioned in my earlier post and it's the deciding frame of the world championship 100k 1st prize 50k second, do you call the foul on yourself like 99.9% of pro snooker players or do you cheat and take the win at all costs attitude?

In snooker if you foul it is the referee's job to call it so by "cheating" in your example you are gaining from the referee's mistake, not your opponent's. The equivalent in poker is when a dealer flashes an opponents card as he is dealing, and I think you'll find that a lot of players who would exploit the QQ guy would point out the dealer's mistake.

yep, I would always declare if I saw a card through a dealer mistake.

it is a very different situation from a player mistake

[LuckyLloyd]

cheating is cheating in my books

i play poker for fun

when i stop having fun and start cheating because i have to win is the say i stop playing poker and look for another hobby

I would suggest that the time to find a new hobby is already upon you.

[Ironside]

cheating is cheating in my books

i play poker for fun

when i stop having fun and start cheating because i have to win is the say i stop playing poker and look for another hobby

I would suggest that the time to find a new hobby is already upon you.

are you accusing me of cheating?

[MANTIS01]

So what do you do if your the snooker player as mentioned in my earlier post and it's the deciding frame of the world championship 100k 1st prize 50k second, do you call the foul on yourself like 99.9% of pro snooker players or do you cheat and take the win at all costs attitude?

I would declare a foul.

What would you do if you put your opponent in a snooker, he made a genuine attempt to get out of it, and the ref called a miss? Would you put your opponent back at the table if it was advantageous to do so?

[Card_Shark]

So what do you do if your the snooker player as mentioned in my earlier post and it's the deciding frame of the world championship 100k 1st prize 50k second, do you call the foul on yourself like 99.9% of pro snooker players or do you cheat and take the win at all costs attitude?

this thread is talking about mistakes made by others and in the example we would in no way be breaking the rules.

Which rules would those be then?

Your rules of engagement at the poker table obviously greatly differ from mine, poker is a game which i and many others play for fun, yes i make money at it, yes i take advantage of peoples mistakes, i wouldn't be a winning poker player if i didn't. I don't take the win at all cost attitude though, if i needed to take this approach to win then i would also think it would be time for me to give up poker.

I'm not saying that your way is wrong, it's just wrong for me as i would class it as cheating.

[Card_Shark]

So what do you do if your the snooker player as mentioned in my earlier post and it's the deciding frame of the world championship 100k 1st prize 50k second, do you call the foul on yourself like 99.9% of pro snooker players or do you cheat and take the win at all costs attitude?

In snooker if you foul it is the referee's job to call it so by "cheating" in your example you are gaining from the referee's mistake, not your opponent's. The equivalent in poker is when a dealer flashes an opponents card as he is dealing, and I think you'll find that a lot of players who would exploit the QQ guy would point out the dealer's mistake.

It may be the referee's job, but remember we are talking about microscopic movements here often barely visible to the naked eye, The vast majority of top players adhere to an unwritten code of conduct which includes calling such fouls on themselves.

My point being that in my personal poker code of conduct, the practice of gaining advantage from another player inadvertently showing me his cards does not exist as i consider it to be cheating.

[Card_Shark]

So what do you do if your the snooker player as mentioned in my earlier post and it's the deciding frame of the world championship 100k 1st prize 50k second, do you call the foul on yourself like 99.9% of pro snooker players or do you cheat and take the win at all costs attitude?

I would declare a foul.

What would you do if you put your opponent in a snooker, he made a genuine attempt to get out of it, and the ref called a miss? Would you put your opponent back at the table if it was advantageous to do so?

Yes everytime because that is the referee's decision not mine.

[Ironside]

on wednessday at the FT of a live game in the international the first hand the guy on my right in seat 3 picks up his cards too his chest exposing them to me as i am sat so far back from table

as i had already seen my cards in teh BB and had no intention of playing them and his cards were also going in the muck

i waited till after the hand was finished and asked him to be more carefull in future

after that if he had continued to show his cards i wouldnt have known what to do

but the whole table and the cardroom staff all knew i had pointed out the problem

[MANTIS01]

Yes everytime because that is the referee's decision not mine.

It is your decision to put your opponent back to the table though...and YOU believe he made a genuine attempt to get out of the snooker. So do you take advantage of the refs decision or do you ethically go ahead and take your shot?

[Card_Shark]

on wednessday at the FT of a live game in the international the first hand the guy on my right in seat 3 picks up his cards too his chest exposing them to me as i am sat so far back from table

as i had already seen my cards in teh BB and had no intention of playing them and his cards were also going in the muck

i waited till after the hand was finished and asked him to be more carefull in future

after that if he had continued to show his cards i wouldnt have known what to do

but the whole table and the cardroom staff all knew i had pointed out the problem

I would and have done so before exactly the same thing, if he continues i would continue to tell him or look away, i wanted to put one of those good post thingy's up, where do i get them from?