Suicide Watch

[kinboshi]

Pulitzer Prize-winning photographer Kevin Carter who "convinced himself that he was right in the mid-1980s to photograph the first known public execution in South Africa by 'necklacing,' setting fire to a gasoline-filled tire around someone's neck. 'I was appalled at what they were doing. I was appalled at what I was doing. But then people started talking about those pictures... then I felt that maybe my actions hadn't been at all bad. Being a witness to something this horrible wasn't necessarily such a bad thing to do.' Carter later took his own life."

and ironically for this thread:

On 27 July 1994 Carter drove to the Braamfonteinspruit river, near the Field and Study Centre, an area he used to play at as a child, and took his own life by taping one end of a hose to his pickup truck’s exhaust pipe and running the other end to the passenger-side window. He died of carbon monoxide poisoning at the age of 33. Portions of Carter's suicide note read:

    "I am depressed ... without phone ... money for rent ... money for child support ... money for debts ... money!!! ... I am haunted by the vivid memories of killings & corpses & anger & pain ... of starving or wounded children, of trigger-happy madmen, often police, of killer executioners...I have gone to join Ken if I am that lucky."

[wader leg]

It's all getting a Bridge to far

It's certainly taken its toll.

[madasahatstand]

The same goes for the crew filming the jumpers..it is not up to the camera crew to stop them, they only make a wider audience aware of the issue and thereby can help many more people. I couldn't do the job them reporters do but I commend them for doing it.

It's everyones responsibility, it's called humanity and Ill bet that film would have more impact if they filmed a few people being talked down?  Most of us don't get the chance to talk someone down but they did and chose not to. Now is that ethical?

We could all go to well-known suicide spots every week to 'talk people down', but we don't.  Well I don't.

We could all volunteer to help the Samaritans, but we don't. 

No we don't but you just raised awareness of how people could help if they wanted to. I doubt many people would want to sit on a bridge for 24 hours a day just incase?

There are a couple of blondes I'm aware of who have worked for the samaratins so some of us do volunteer and help.

[madasahatstand]

The same goes for the crew filming the jumpers..it is not up to the camera crew to stop them, they only make a wider audience aware of the issue and thereby can help many more people. I couldn't do the job them reporters do but I commend them for doing it.

It's everyones responsibility, it's called humanity and Ill bet that film would have more impact if they filmed a few people being talked down?  Most of us don't get the chance to talk someone down but they did and chose not to. Now is that ethical?

And you'd lose your money. The impact the pictures of Ethiopia made were because people were dying on television. Not because they were being saved.

Yes and the fact people jump and die is the message they want to put out and its not about them being saved. But in Ethiopia people can be saved and that why many campaigns  use pictures such as the one kin posted. To show you can make a difference. This film doesnt give that hope and it would have a bigger impact if it did so I think my money is safe.

You can be pretty sure they had a long hard discussion about what to do if they saw someone ready to jump and I think they made the right one.

Did they? I think thats what I asked initially about considering the ethics and if they did I'd be very interested in that discussion. It may sway me? I doubt it?

[cia260895]

so if you were in the position and saw someone who was going to jump would you just watch or try to intervene??

[madasahatstand]

so if you were in the position and saw someone who was going to jump would you just watch or try to intervene??

intervene

[madasahatstand]

Pulitzer Prize-winning photographer Kevin Carter who "convinced himself that he was right in the mid-1980s to photograph the first known public execution in South Africa by 'necklacing,' setting fire to a gasoline-filled tire around someone's neck. 'I was appalled at what they were doing. I was appalled at what I was doing. But then people started talking about those pictures... then I felt that maybe my actions hadn't been at all bad. Being a witness to something this horrible wasn't necessarily such a bad thing to do.' Carter later took his own life."

and ironically for this thread:

On 27 July 1994 Carter drove to the Braamfonteinspruit river, near the Field and Study Centre, an area he used to play at as a child, and took his own life by taping one end of a hose to his pickup truck’s exhaust pipe and running the other end to the passenger-side window. He died of carbon monoxide poisoning at the age of 33. Portions of Carter's suicide note read:

    "I am depressed ... without phone ... money for rent ... money for child support ... money for debts ... money!!! ... I am haunted by the vivid memories of killings & corpses & anger & pain ... of starving or wounded children, of trigger-happy madmen, often police, of killer executioners...I have gone to join Ken if I am that lucky."

This guy could not have done anything about what happened then. Those filmakers could but I bet it will still cause them some discomfort when they reflect on it?

[Royal Flush]

A film showing the effects on a selfish suicide on the victims family is far more powerful than a cheery, oh look he is alive and is glad he dint jump.

As i understand people who commit suicide feel they have no way back to a normal life and have given up, seeing a film where someone made it back will not help them relate, they have already made up thier minds. The only thing that might make them stop is the thought of hurting others, especially family.

Although its impossible to tell i am willing to bet that not intervening will be a +EV play and save more lives in the long term.

[madasahatstand]

A film showing the effects on a selfish suicide on the victims family is far more powerful than a cheery, oh look he is alive and is glad he dint jump.

As i understand people who commit suicide feel they have no way back to a normal life and have given up, seeing a film where someone made it back will not help them relate, they have already made up thier minds. The only thing that might make them stop is the thought of hurting others, especially family.

Although its impossible to tell i am willing to bet that not intervening will be a +EV play and save more lives in the long term.

I dont know how suicide is cheery or can ever be. Maybe you think it's selfish but people that do it tend to be in a lot of pain and I reckon most do consider their families and feel so bad about themselves that they convince themselves that the world, including the family is better off without them! . I think you are missing my point. There may be a lot of families spared this pain if their folks didn't do it and from what CIA said, there was no demonstration of family emotion  at all in the film. This is no help to families or people thinking about doing it or am I missing something?

Not interneveing can't possibly save more lives - the film tells you - jump and you'll die. People already know that! As I said in an earlier post, there are lot of people who are glad they didnt die either after thinking about suicide or trying it and failing.

[cia260895]

A film showing the effects on a selfish suicide on the victims family is far more powerful than a cheery, oh look he is alive and is glad he dint jump.

As i understand people who commit suicide feel they have no way back to a normal life and have given up, seeing a film where someone made it back will not help them relate, they have already made up thier minds. The only thing that might make them stop is the thought of hurting others, especially family.

Although its impossible to tell i am willing to bet that not intervening will be a +EV play and save more lives in the long term.

How would you feel if 1 of your kids or family committed suicide and then a film crew turned up and said "hey we just filmed them doing it, we could have intervened but the film making was more important"

[gatso]

A film showing the effects on a selfish suicide on the victims family is far more powerful than a cheery, oh look he is alive and is glad he dint jump.

As i understand people who commit suicide feel they have no way back to a normal life and have given up, seeing a film where someone made it back will not help them relate, they have already made up thier minds. The only thing that might make them stop is the thought of hurting others, especially family.

Although its impossible to tell i am willing to bet that not intervening will be a +EV play and save more lives in the long term.

How would you feel if 1 of your kids or family committed suicide and then a film crew turned up and said "hey we just filmed them doing it, we could have intervened but the film making was more important"

ridic question IMO. why would that ever happen?

[gatso]

so if you were in the position and saw someone who was going to jump would you just watch or try to intervene??

not particularly relevant to this discussion as it has nothing to do with the morals or otherwise of journalists but an interesting question nonetheless. I'm pretty sure that  most people would like to think that they would try to intervene, however I feel the truth may be somewhat different.

I honestly feel that most people when put in that situation would either stand by and watch or walk off and pretend it wasn't happening. Human nature is not always what we'd like to believe it is.

[madasahatstand]

so if you were in the position and saw someone who was going to jump would you just watch or try to intervene??

not particularly relevant to this discussion as it has nothing to do with the morals or otherwise of journalists but an interesting question nonetheless. I'm pretty sure that  most people would like to think that they would try to intervene, however I feel the truth may be somewhat different.

I honestly feel that most people when put in that situation would either stand by and watch or walk off and pretend it wasn't happening. Human nature is not always what we'd like to believe it is.

 I do hope you are wrong.....

[Royal Flush]

Many times modern history has show us how a journalist capturing an image can have a much greater global effect than intervening in the act itself.

[madasahatstand]

Many times modern history has show us how a journalist capturing an image can have a much greater global effect than intervening in the act itself.

yes but those images often spur us on to help. what is this film encouraging us to do? Express that those who jump are 'selfish' in your own words? 

One thing it is doing is raising the awareness because we are here talking about it. There are similarities I agree but in this case it would be much more powerful to let the viewers see that helping people is very effective. Its left the audience feeling impotent IMO.