Help Lord Wernick.............

[Dry em]

Loving your work Flushy.

oh and...

but everyone should be getting their money in on that flop

...ah that's that one sorted then

[Royal Flush]

Maybe I'm the tightest player on the planet but would anyone else consider folding pre flop?

Maybe in late position it's worth a raise or possibly early position if it's a six seater but otherwise I'm folding with the stacks and blinds as they are.

I never like these sort of hands early on in tournaments. They're nothing but trouble as far as my (very limited) experience goes. It doesn't seem to matter what you hit you just never know quite where you stand after the flop and are always going to get put to big decisions. I don't mind this later on but at this stage it's just not worth it.

After the flop I'm folding here with no hesitation at all. This hand is useless unless you've hit the nuts or it's cheap to carry on to see if you do.

Maybe that's why Mr Wernick has earned so much more out of poker than I ever will

One more thing......

Barney Boatman calling with 9 3!!! What's that all about? Must've been in the big blind but even so what can you possibly hit? If you hit you're probably not getting paid because no one else hits. If you miss you miss big and lose a few hundred chips. If you hit and someone else hits big enough to play along you're probably losing.......

I'm not knocking these plays because these guys are good players and probably better than I'll ever be but I just don't get what he hopes to achieve with 9 3?

Looks like I've got a lot to learn.

Do you go out of a lot of tournaments pushing all in with 7BB and losing a 60-40?

Do you ever post your thoughts on the hand anymore or do you just wait to disagree with someone or make barbed comments?

cmon mate, how do you see the hand?

TBH lloyd has hit it, you are not loving it but you can't pass here. Fist-pump-shove-aments

Folding A9c here pre is good if you can't play flops, but if you can't play flops you should probably stick to scrabble.

Thanks, did you speak to Mickey about the hand? Do you know what the correct stack sizes were as there seems to be some confusion over who had what in front of them.

I couldn't think of anything more depressing than sitting in a room full of poker players for 3 days getting nipped every 5 minutes, so i stayed at home instead of playing the GPT. I feel much better for it!

As such i have not spoken to Mickey.....

[cambo]

Maybe I'm the tightest player on the planet but would anyone else consider folding pre flop?

Maybe in late position it's worth a raise or possibly early position if it's a six seater but otherwise I'm folding with the stacks and blinds as they are.

I never like these sort of hands early on in tournaments. They're nothing but trouble as far as my (very limited) experience goes. It doesn't seem to matter what you hit you just never know quite where you stand after the flop and are always going to get put to big decisions. I don't mind this later on but at this stage it's just not worth it.

After the flop I'm folding here with no hesitation at all. This hand is useless unless you've hit the nuts or it's cheap to carry on to see if you do.

Maybe that's why Mr Wernick has earned so much more out of poker than I ever will

One more thing......

Barney Boatman calling with 9 3!!! What's that all about? Must've been in the big blind but even so what can you possibly hit? If you hit you're probably not getting paid because no one else hits. If you miss you miss big and lose a few hundred chips. If you hit and someone else hits big enough to play along you're probably losing.......

I'm not knocking these plays because these guys are good players and probably better than I'll ever be but I just don't get what he hopes to achieve with 9 3?

Looks like I've got a lot to learn.

Do you go out of a lot of tournaments pushing all in with 7BB and losing a 60-40?

Do you ever post your thoughts on the hand anymore or do you just wait to disagree with someone or make barbed comments?

cmon mate, how do you see the hand?

TBH lloyd has hit it, you are not loving it but you can't pass here. Fist-pump-shove-aments

Folding A9c here pre is good if you can't play flops, but if you can't play flops you should probably stick to scrabble.

lol thanks for the enlightenment, ill remember that the next time i bust from a comp playing a raggy ace from early position

[EvilPie]

Maybe I'm the tightest player on the planet but would anyone else consider folding pre flop?

Maybe in late position it's worth a raise or possibly early position if it's a six seater but otherwise I'm folding with the stacks and blinds as they are.

I never like these sort of hands early on in tournaments. They're nothing but trouble as far as my (very limited) experience goes. It doesn't seem to matter what you hit you just never know quite where you stand after the flop and are always going to get put to big decisions. I don't mind this later on but at this stage it's just not worth it.

After the flop I'm folding here with no hesitation at all. This hand is useless unless you've hit the nuts or it's cheap to carry on to see if you do.

Maybe that's why Mr Wernick has earned so much more out of poker than I ever will

One more thing......

Barney Boatman calling with 9 3!!! What's that all about? Must've been in the big blind but even so what can you possibly hit? If you hit you're probably not getting paid because no one else hits. If you miss you miss big and lose a few hundred chips. If you hit and someone else hits big enough to play along you're probably losing.......

I'm not knocking these plays because these guys are good players and probably better than I'll ever be but I just don't get what he hopes to achieve with 9 3?

Looks like I've got a lot to learn.

Do you go out of a lot of tournaments pushing all in with 7BB and losing a 60-40?

Do you ever post your thoughts on the hand anymore or do you just wait to disagree with someone or make barbed comments?

cmon mate, how do you see the hand?

TBH lloyd has hit it, you are not loving it but you can't pass here. Fist-pump-shove-aments

Folding A9c here pre is good if you can't play flops, but if you can't play flops you should probably stick to scrabble.

So funny.....

If Mickey Wernick can get it wrong playing this hand after the flop then I think I'll stick to more more solid openings from early position. At least until I've got a bit more experience anyway 

Give us a chance dude, of course I can't play every flop perfectly yet, I've only been playing 6 months. But I'm learning fast so watch out, EvilPie's coming after you all........... (As long as he's dealt monster cards every time )

And as far as I'm aware playing flops with mediocre hands is about convincing the other guys that you're stronger than them. This works out pretty badly when they've both got hands that they can't put down no matter what you do. Even Gus Hansen, Phil Ivey etc. would have struggled with this one after the flop. I'll stick to the Dan Harrington theory that this is not a good enough opening hand and fold it. At least until I get to see evidence to the contrary.

[Royal Flush]

749 QJ6 567 K74

These are all flops Mickey makes 1500 chips from......there are so many more.

It's very hard for Mickey to get stacked here.

[AlexMartin]

LOL, this thread has moved from a good postflop discussion to whether A9s is ok to open from in ep.
WHY?!!!!??!!!!

Iv got an idea, lets all play like T.J + McEvoy and have really narrow e.p ranges that wont be at all exploitable and will make us a terror at the tables. A9s is fine this deep for christs sake.

As for the postflop situ, given how bad players are in these comps im pretty sure its a clear fold as you will find much more favourable investment opportunities. On a level playing field, of course we never pass this hand getting nearly the right price and a shot at a large stack.

[cambo]

dunno how it diverted from the post flop discussion, personally id rather open 56 off than a raggy ace frpm early, with that flop ur in a world of pain and all the chips are going in even if you know all you have is the flush draw, lost count of the hands ive seen tonight on the live updates where people went bust playing the same sort of hands ans encountered the same flop. its alright flushy saying theres many flops he can take it down but those are the exact same flops he can get pushed off his hand, obviously im no expert and who am i to question his play but there u go thats my thoughts

[LuckyLloyd]

Also, it would be really cool if we could stop referring to Ac9c as a "raggy Ace".

[I KNOW IT]

I cant see why people are not viewing this as cooler.

Micks raised with A9 c  hes hit a 9 3 2 two club flop. Id guarentee by the time the final action got back to him he knew he was behind
 but its very hard to put both players on their exact hands. He could have thought his A was live as well 9 clubs giving him 12 outs twice. One of the players might have had a 2 pair instead of a set ,the other a draw (flush with 2 overs) reducing his outs
 Its a good spot to get a big stack or fold and keep 13k or 17k whichever it is.
If this flop would have happened online everyone would be screaming " rigged " I mean come on TP/TK nut flush draw vs Top 2 Pair vs Bottom set.
I dont think Micky was just going for the 450 in blinds with his raise and couldnt believe his luck at 1st on that flop.
Like someone said there were some weak players( not including Barny btw) in the field so they didnt have to be as strong on the flop as they were. . I think it was a good spot to get a big stack and Id find it very hard to turn down.
verdict: COOLER

I wish this would have been looked at without knowing the other players holdings and seen if opinions changed

[action man]

this is not a cooler imo. This is a case of gambling with 9 outs max and any good player with 17k left at 150/300 with only 1900 invested should get away from this.

Jeez esp wernick who is championed by many as the best short stacker around.

[I KNOW IT]

Its a cooler in the sense that everyone has hit the flop so big. Like I said I would guarantee Micky knew he was behind when the final action got back to him but decided to go for a big pot. I cant imagine Micky or anyone else putting his opponents on their exact holdings though.
On the flop he was 32.66% vs 12.84% vs 54.48% so was it mathmaticaly a bad decision?
I know its unlike Micky to put his chips in when he knows hes behind at that stage of a comp but without knowing their exact cards I dont think it was that bad

[boldie]

Its a cooler in the sense that everyone has hit the flop so big. Like I said I would guarantee Micky knew he was behind when the final action got back to him but decided to go for a big pot. I cant imagine Micky or anyone else putting his opponents on their exact holdings though.
On the flop he was 32.66% vs 12.84% vs 54.48% so was it mathmaticaly a bad decision?
I know its unlike Micky to put his chips in when he knows hes behind at that stage of a comp but without knowing their exact cards I dont think it was that bad

I don't want to keep beating the dead horse on this one BUT aren't the two holdings of both villains just about the best holdings they could have for Mickey?

Surely we know atleast 1 of them is beating him and the other one in a worse case scenario holds two of Mickey's outs with a K high flush draw? If therefore knowing the other guys holdings it's debatable..not knowing the other two guys' holdings would make it a worse decision?

[I KNOW IT]

Its a cooler in the sense that everyone has hit the flop so big. Like I said I would guarantee Micky knew he was behind when the final action got back to him but decided to go for a big pot. I cant imagine Micky or anyone else putting his opponents on their exact holdings though.
On the flop he was 32.66% vs 12.84% vs 54.48% so was it mathmaticaly a bad decision?
I know its unlike Micky to put his chips in when he knows hes behind at that stage of a comp but without knowing their exact cards I dont think it was that bad

I don't want to keep beating the dead horse on this one BUT aren't the two holdings of both villains just about the best holdings they could have for Mickey?

Surely we know atleast 1 of them is beating him and the other one in a worse case scenario holds two of Mickey's outs with a K high flush draw? If therefore knowing the other guys holdings it's debatable..not knowing the other two guys' holdings would make it a worse decision?

scenario : A9 c vs 23 o/s vs KQc
               47.39% vs 49.94% vs 2.65%
So if this was the case  the other  isnt the best for Micky  and this could have been probable
If he was up against 2pair and an overpair he would be a slight favourite (according to HMF poker calculator)
So imo it isnt just a straight forward fold

[I KNOW IT]

Its a cooler in the sense that everyone has hit the flop so big. Like I said I would guarantee Micky knew he was behind when the final action got back to him but decided to go for a big pot. I cant imagine Micky or anyone else putting his opponents on their exact holdings though.
On the flop he was 32.66% vs 12.84% vs 54.48% so was it mathmaticaly a bad decision?
I know its unlike Micky to put his chips in when he knows hes behind at that stage of a comp but without knowing their exact cards I dont think it was that bad

I don't want to keep beating the dead horse on this one BUT aren't the two holdings of both villains just about the best holdings they could have for Mickey?

Think they might be the worst

[boldie]

Its a cooler in the sense that everyone has hit the flop so big. Like I said I would guarantee Micky knew he was behind when the final action got back to him but decided to go for a big pot. I cant imagine Micky or anyone else putting his opponents on their exact holdings though.
On the flop he was 32.66% vs 12.84% vs 54.48% so was it mathmaticaly a bad decision?
I know its unlike Micky to put his chips in when he knows hes behind at that stage of a comp but without knowing their exact cards I dont think it was that bad

I don't want to keep beating the dead horse on this one BUT aren't the two holdings of both villains just about the best holdings they could have for Mickey?

Surely we know atleast 1 of them is beating him and the other one in a worse case scenario holds two of Mickey's outs with a K high flush draw? If therefore knowing the other guys holdings it's debatable..not knowing the other two guys' holdings would make it a worse decision?

scenario : A9 c vs 23 o/s vs KQc
               47.39% vs 49.94% vs 2.65%
So if this was the case  the other  isnt the best for Micky  and this could have been probable
If he was up against 2pair and an overpair he would be a slight favourite (according to HMF poker calculator)
So imo it isnt just a straight forward fold

Sorry thought I'd replied to this one.

didn't know the difference was this much...