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Author Topic: 10pence tax band  (Read 23805 times)
Bongo
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« Reply #75 on: April 21, 2008, 01:54:20 PM »

In practice it would just mean more people voting for who the sun told them to.
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boldie
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« Reply #76 on: April 21, 2008, 02:20:23 PM »

Britain doesn't have a "none of the above option", perhaps it's an idea to do so.

It would make me vote.
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Claw75
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« Reply #77 on: April 21, 2008, 02:33:01 PM »

Britain doesn't have a "none of the above option", perhaps it's an idea to do so.

It would make me vote.

is voting compulsory in the Netherlands baldie?
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thediceman
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« Reply #78 on: April 21, 2008, 02:35:42 PM »

Britain doesn't have a "none of the above option", perhaps it's an idea to do so.

It would make me vote.

is voting compulsory in the Netherlands baldie?

I believe it is in Australia.
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kinboshi
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« Reply #79 on: April 21, 2008, 02:36:00 PM »

Britain doesn't have a "none of the above option", perhaps it's an idea to do so.

It would make me vote.

is voting compulsory in the Netherlands baldie?

No, but typos are.
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boldie
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« Reply #80 on: April 21, 2008, 02:36:49 PM »

Britain doesn't have a "none of the above option", perhaps it's an idea to do so.

It would make me vote.

is voting compulsory in the Netherlands baldie?

nope..but we have a "none of the above" option. A spoilt ballot essentially means you vote for the biggest party, a none of the above option prevents that Smiley
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kinboshi
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« Reply #81 on: April 21, 2008, 02:40:12 PM »

Britain doesn't have a "none of the above option", perhaps it's an idea to do so.

It would make me vote.

is voting compulsory in the Netherlands baldie?

I believe it is in Australia.

From wikipedia:

Compulsory voting

Australia enforces compulsory voting, including compulsory enrolment (registration) to vote. Compulsory voting was introduced in 1924 . The immediate impetus for compulsory voting at federal level was the low voter turnout (59.38%) in the federal elections of 1922. Voting is compulsory both at federal elections and at elections for the state and territory legislatures. In some states voting at municipal elections is also compulsory. About 5% of enrolled voters fail to vote at most elections. People in this situation are asked to explain their failure to vote. If no satisfactory reason is provided (for example, illness or religious prohibition), a relatively small fine is imposed ($20-$70) , and failure to pay the fine may result in a court hearing.

It is commonly but wrongly claimed that it is compulsory to only attend a polling place and have one's name checked against the electoral roll. In fact, Section 245 of the Electoral Act says that "It shall be the duty of every elector to vote at each election... The Electoral Commissioner must, after polling day at each election, prepare for each Division a list of the names and addresses of the electors who appear to have failed to vote at the election." A voter who has their name crossed off but then refuses a ballot paper or is seen not to put the ballot in the ballot box will be recorded as having not voted.

Those who do not wish to vote for any of the available candidates sometimes resort to informal voting — placing a blank or incompletely filled out ballot in the ballot box. Even though informal voting is illegal and technically subject to the same penalties as failure to vote, it is impossible to identify or penalise those who do so without violating the secrecy of the ballot. The number of informal votes is recorded, but they are not counted as part of the total number of votes cast. Over 95% of eligible Australians attend polling, and in both 2001 and 2004, around 5% of Representatives votes were informal

Some political scientists believe that compulsory voting benefits the Australian Labor Party, while others dispute this. It is argued that most of the social groups who would tend not to vote if voting were voluntary are more inclined to vote Labor (people from the ethnic and immigrant communities, indigenous Australians, and people with lower levels of education). Occasionally conservative politicians or libertarian intellectuals argue for the abolition of compulsory voting on philosophical grounds, but no government has ever attempted to abolish it.

The fact that compulsory voting has lasted through many changes of government indicates to many observers[citation needed] that the party that benefits most from it is the party in power, who are the ones that would have to change it. The reason for this belief is that despite its best efforts no government can avoid occasionally annoying its own supporters. These voters would never vote for the opposition, but if voting were voluntary and they were sufficiently annoyed they could just stay at home.

Following the 2004 federal elections, at which the Liberal-National coalition government won a majority in both Houses, a senior minister, Senator Nick Minchin, said that he favoured the abolition of compulsory voting. The then government gave no indication, however, that it would legislate to this effect, and indeed did not do so before being defeated in the 2007 federal election. Some prominent Liberals, such as Petro Georgiou, former chair of the Parliament's Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters, have spoken in favour of compulsory voting.

Because it maximises voter turnout, compulsory voting also maximises the quantum of campaign cost reimbursement--public moneys paid to candidates and parties polling a minimum of 4 per cent at an election.
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Claw75
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« Reply #82 on: April 21, 2008, 03:16:12 PM »

Britain doesn't have a "none of the above option", perhaps it's an idea to do so.

It would make me vote.

is voting compulsory in the Netherlands baldie?

I believe it is in Australia.

yep - they have PR too
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boldie
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« Reply #83 on: April 21, 2008, 03:34:16 PM »

Britain doesn't have a "none of the above option", perhaps it's an idea to do so.

It would make me vote.

is voting compulsory in the Netherlands baldie?

I believe it is in Australia.

yep - they have PR too

To be fair, they also have baby-eating-dingos and they've only completed building the edges of the country...so it's not all good with those lazy arsed convicts.
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thediceman
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« Reply #84 on: April 21, 2008, 03:54:44 PM »

And the argument against PR is surely that we will forever have a hung Parliament and the numerous problems this creates. Do not coalitions result in diluted comprised policies???. Is this really the most effective and desirable of political models.

Also, is it fair that you potentially have one party that wins with a substantially greater % of the vote and than finds itself at the mercy of a coalition of two lesser parties???
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Claw75
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« Reply #85 on: April 21, 2008, 04:00:26 PM »

And the argument against PR is surely that we will forever have a hung Parliament and the numerous problems this creates. Do not coalitions result in diluted comprised policies???. Is this really the most effective and desirable of political models.

Also, is it fair that you potentially have one party that wins with a substantially greater % of the vote and than finds itself at the mercy of a coalition of two lesser parties???

the trouble is there is no ideal, and what is one person's ideal is the antithesis for the next man.
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taximan007
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« Reply #86 on: April 21, 2008, 04:04:26 PM »

When voting, should you vote for the party you wish to run the country or the candidate who you feel will do the most good in the constituency in which you reside ?
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Claw75
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« Reply #87 on: April 21, 2008, 04:05:50 PM »

When voting, should you vote for the party you wish to run the country or the candidate who you feel will do the most good in the constituency in which you reside ?

the latter.  But that's one of the problems with the current system - that they are tied so closely together.

In fact I was having a conversation about this with someone the other day.  They said they didn't think it was fair that Gordon Brown had become Prime Minister without a public vote, as the public had voted for Tony Blair to be Prime Minister.  Not so.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2008, 04:07:43 PM by Claw75 » Logged

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Bongo
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« Reply #88 on: April 21, 2008, 04:17:31 PM »

Also, is it fair that you potentially have one party that wins with a substantially greater % of the vote and than finds itself at the mercy of a coalition of two lesser parties???

Is it fair to have a party that got 35% of the votes to have all the power?
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Jon MW
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« Reply #89 on: April 21, 2008, 04:24:43 PM »

Also, is it fair that you potentially have one party that wins with a substantially greater % of the vote and than finds itself at the mercy of a coalition of two lesser parties???

Is it fair to have a party that got 35% of the votes to have all the power?

That's the dilemma. Do you give parties with less support more power than the votes they garnered, or do you give the party with the most support all the power.

Given that it is hard to change anything substantial in a PR created hung parliament and that we would have no choice about what coalitions get formed (a party with 1% of the vote could end up as part of the Government for example) then the current system (with some tweaks) seems like the best option.

Obviously if you're more of the mindset that the Government does the most damage when it meddles with things then PR would be a better option (although you're still likely to have minority parties with disproportionate amounts of influence).

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