What's the best move here?

[Royal Flush]

I don't think i am ready yet so will do it in stages.

How are you ever 7-1 pre with a PP?

[action man]

tuffster, you say you are a novice but you speak so objectively. This board is all about gathering opinions and thoughts on hands and situations. You can do a lot worse than to listen to flushy on this matter.

Im sure he will reply to your post soon in a constructive and educated manner. A few bullet points for you if i may be so bold.

• 20bb average stack is a crapshoot and no amount of +ev should be passed up.
• it is possibe he is raising and folding to a shove with a rag ace/connectors/two pictures etc..
• with a 20bb stack 5 handed the best ploy imo is to shove on a lot of peoples button raises with semi-decent hands, or shove on utg with pairs + AT+
• people will be trying to ladder up the pay scale in a $5 tourney so their calling ranges are a lot tighter than you would imagine.
• if, say you pass the 88 pre, and dont find a playable hand until you have 10bb then get AK v 44 and win the race, you are back to where you were with the 88= 20bb

[booder]

tuffster, you say you are a novice but you speak so objectively. This board is all about gathering opinions and thoughts on hands and situations. You can do a lot worse than to listen to flushy on this matter.

Im sure he will reply to your post soon in a constructive and educated manner. A few bullet points for you if i may be so bold.

• 20bb average stack is a crapshoot and no amount of +ev should be passed up.
• it is possibe he is raising and folding to a shove with a rag ace/connectors/two pictures etc..
• with a 20bb stack 5 handed the best ploy imo is to shove on a lot of peoples button raises with semi-decent hands, or shove on utg with pairs + AT+
• people will be trying to ladder up the pay scale in a $5 tourney so their calling ranges are a lot tighter than you would imagine.
• if, say you pass the 88 pre, and dont find a playable hand until you have 10bb then get AK v 44 and win the race, you are back to where you were with the 88= 20bb

FIGJAM

[action man]

ok whats figjam?

[booder]

ok whats figjam?

Fk I'm Good   Just Ask Me

[Tuffster]

tuffster, you say you are a novice but you speak so objectively. This board is all about gathering opinions and thoughts on hands and situations. You can do a lot worse than to listen to flushy on this matter.

Im sure he will reply to your post soon in a constructive and educated manner. A few bullet points for you if i may be so bold.

• 20bb average stack is a crapshoot and no amount of +ev should be passed up.
• it is possibe he is raising and folding to a shove with a rag ace/connectors/two pictures etc..
• with a 20bb stack 5 handed the best ploy imo is to shove on a lot of peoples button raises with semi-decent hands, or shove on utg with pairs + AT+
• people will be trying to ladder up the pay scale in a $5 tourney so their calling ranges are a lot tighter than you would imagine.
• if, say you pass the 88 pre, and dont find a playable hand until you have 10bb then get AK v 44 and win the race, you are back to where you were with the 88= 20bb

Action Man,

Thanks for the advice and pointers here, it's greatly appreciated, some pointers on where I can improve my game are what I'm looking for so that hopefully soon I'll become a more proficient player and hopefully start to turn enough of a profit to fund my rabid alcoholism.

I concur that Flushy is an excellent player whose advice is greatly appreciated, however, when he implied that I'd written the most stupid post in the history of Blonde, I did rather take offence to that. I know I'm no where near being a proficient player and I was looking for someone to tell me why my rationalising was deficient, so thanks again for the pointers above, they spell it out for me.

I don't think i am ready yet so will do it in stages.

How are you ever 7-1 pre with a PP?

Mis-type on my part, should have been 7-2 dog to an overpair. (I'm probably wrong here as well though)

Like I've said, I'm not a good player, I just play for fun and have become part of Blonde to join in the witty Badinage and pick up some helpful advice along the way. So to everyone out there I offended with my lack of knowledge, I'm sorry, don't worry, it won't happen again.

[Royal Flush]

Folding, I lose 5% of my stack, which can easily be regained with a steal myself. Shoving, I'm risking (basically) my entire tournament on a coin-flip (at best). I'm getting 50/50 on my money, so I want to be at least 50/50 to win in order to take this bet. Surely that makes sense in odds terms.

If I'm either, a) Racing, I'm marginally ahead so odds wise it's a good call or; b) 7/1 underdog which odds wise is a very bad thing.

Right, so if he has 22-77 pre what does he do?

He still has the option to fold, you deffo have fold equity here.

He has opened to 4xBB with no antes, this weights his hand towards the lower range, smaller pairs and big aces.

You are going to be an 80-20 fave here more often than an 80-20 dog.

"Racing, I'm marginally ahead so odds wise it's a good call" Do you play live a lot? This is a major tilt issue, shoving with FE is not the same as calling!!!!

Some of the phrases used such as "spewing equity" and "depends really. If you like money you shove. If you have fallen out with your money you flat or fold" seem to indicate that a shove here is the best move over the course of time, however, given the stats, I can't see how this is ++++EV. I can't see it being more than 52/48 in my favour.

As many people have said before, Poker is a game of decisions and pushing people to make bad decisions. I would much rather be putting those decisions on other people by pushing myself (with fold equity) than calling off and just hoping the Gods will be good to me.

Its not 52-48, if i run this through with a range of 22-TT AT+ (i am assuming he is raising less with the biggest pairs) ignoring all the times he is raising with T8 again, and all the times he folds AT when you jam. You are still a 58% favourite.

You are not good enough to pass up 58%, simple as. In reality i think his raising range is much wider and you have FE so will pick up chips far more often. Thus further boosting your equity.

P.S. 20BB does not leave room to play.

[MANTIS01]

Posted by: Tuffster

Folding, I lose 5% of my stack, which can easily be regained with a steal myself. Shoving, I'm risking (basically) my entire tournament on a coin-flip (at best). I'm getting 50/50 on my money, so I want to be at least 50/50 to win in order to take this bet. Surely that makes sense in odds terms.

If I'm either, a) Racing, I'm marginally ahead so odds wise it's a good call or; b) 7/1 underdog which odds wise is a very bad thing.

I am very much in favour of the shove here myself, and as such i'm afraid I don't agree with your logic Tuffster. We're playing short-handed poker and there are 4 other players hunting this victory. Retreating from situations like this and justifying it with marginal stats just means you're going to get battered in this format. Much better to be pressuring the table and calling the shots yourself.

Short-handed poker is about getting people to move out of your way rather than moving out of theirs. Pushing is +ev because your fold equity is huge and your image will be good. Hard to control proceedings when you fold your cards.

[bolt pp]

I concur that flushy is an exellent player

I held back the tears for a whole page untill i got to this comment, they came.

[Jamier-Host]

I fully understand that the guy is playing A2C and I'm pretty sure I'm ahead, but I know that with 25% of his stack in, I have no fold equity.

If the first bit is true then you needn't be too fussed about fold equity, although it is a nice bonus if he just rolls over.