Drugs in poker

[PocketLady]

Incidentally I watched a documentary a couple of months ago called "Should I smoke dope".  A female journalist in her 30s or 40s who had never smoked weed before tried it for the first time, and they did a couple of experiments.  In one of them they got her in a car on a racetrack.  The idea was to accelerate to 60mph heading towards a row of dolls on the floor.  When the lights when red she had to brake and avoid running over the dolls.  First they got her to do it sober, and she did it perfectly.  Then they got her to do it drunk after a bottle of wine.  She accelerated to about 90mph, she tried to break but her reaction time was too slow, tried to swerve and ended up hitting two of the dolls.  They brought her back the next day to do it stoned.  She would barely drive above 40mph due to the effect of the weed, and managed to stop without hitting the dolls. 

Now I know this topic is more about coke than it is about weed, and I'm sure the effects would be different, but this just goes to show.  I don't condone drinking and driving, nor drugs and driving, but if I had to pick one I know which one I would choose.  I also know we're not talking about driving, but I think it's a great example of the difference between these two things and the effect they have on people. 

[gatso]

I guarantee that if i sat at the bar had 10 pints, a couple of lines and a joint then sat at your table i wouldnt upset anyone. People would know i was battered but i wouldnt be offensive because drugs dont create that in a person.

I agree 100% with this.  Alcohol can make people offensive, violent, and very unpleasant.  I can honestly say I have never been offended or verbally abused by anyone on coke or weed.  Alcohol is the main problem.  Playing poker with drunk people can obviously be a good thing if they decide to give you a christmas present, but they are also likely to kick off when they lose a pot and become otherwise loud and offensive, occassionally violent.  People on drugs tend to be happy (at least in this environment, I don't mean the people shooting up on a daily basis)

spot on, you've taken the best part of stuart's post and elaborated on it well.

So you condone his behaviour ?

I have no idea, wasn't there. some people who were there didn't like it, others found him amusing.

however there appears to be no actual evidence that he'd taken any drugs, just assumption, there's disagreement over whether he was out of line and yet he's being called 'a coked up scrote' on a public forum. a touch ott methinks.

[gatso]

oh, and of course there was the question of whether he'd bought in using drug money. where the hell did that come from? way out of line

[gatso]

I'd love to be at the meeting at the casino if someone suggests they should look into customers' cocaine use. think it'd be a short meeting

so it impairs the punters judgement and will keep them awake all night? and you think we should try to stop them using it?

they'd probably consider putting the stuff in the free coffees if they thought they could get away with it

[Dingdell]

Having allegedly witnessed the results of drug use during a poker game yesterday (absolutely bizarre behaviour/volume/actions etc etc) I just wondered what the general feel was about drugs used in poker.

Legend has it that the bin in the mens loos at Luton has been used more often than not for a line of coke by some players and one was banned from Luton for doing a line on the metal bars of the smoking cage and being caught on camera.

In an unregulated playing arena such as poker is it open season for whatever works for you, or should the killjoy in me have asked the TD to check the player for drugs and have him booted out if anything was found? (I'm pretty sure they can't do that by the way - it's a rhetorical question acting as a devils advocate)

As I sat by this player last night with him banging on in my left ear constantly about 'keeping it real Bro' and 'peace and love' and everytime a camera went past he shouted 'strike a pose, strike a pose' I thought about how drugs and violence are connected. I for one, was close to punching him in the face.

One of the poker magazines recently wrote about performance enhancing drugs in poker, suggesting some heighten your awareness of surroundings and help you keep track of what's going on in the game more easily. Remembering tells behaviours etc. Last night I drank a mineral drink throughout the evening and was alert at all times and at midnight would have believed it was 10pm, I was so full of energy. Is there any real difference between what I did and what 'peace and love' allegedly did?

This was my original post - asking what to do (if anything) if you feel a player is on drugs. Does it really matter. And is it any different from having a drink at the table.

Lets not turn it into a personal vendetta against one player who may or may not have done anything - but merely caused the question to be posed because of my experience from it.

[PocketLady]

In answer to your question Dingdell, I would alert the TD only if the player became offensive or disruptive to the game.  Other than that, he's not really doing anything wrong.  He might have been on drugs, or he might just be mad. 

Any drugs that enhance your performance I feel is slightly different to having a drink at the table.  In my opinion, drinking alcohol to any extent at the table (not that I haven't done it on several occassions...) only damages your performance, but if it is a drug that doesn't make you play better then no, I don't see it as being any different to having a drink.

I must admit to having a very liberal attitude towards drugs, even though the hardest drugs I have ever done was a bit of weed when I was at uni.  I have a liberal attitude because in general I don't think drugs are much worse than alcohol, some are probably better.  In fact I even believe that some drugs (not all!) should be legalised.  All these horror stories you hear about people dying from popping one pill etc etc would be prevented if they were legalised and very carefully monitored and regulated.  It would stop the drug related crime and it would mean that people would be safe in the knowledge that what they were taking wasn't contaminated and about to kill them.  People are going to do it, legal or not.  Obviously I know this is probably never going to happen, and is more complicated than that, but it's just my opinion.  I would hold the same standards for drugs as I would alcohol.  As long a person doesn't become violent, disruptive, or dependent on alcohol or drugs in their daily lives, then no harm done.

[K9sixtwo]

Inappropriate behaviour at the Poker table is innapropriate behaviour...regardless of if it's drug fuelled or alcohol fuelled.

Sadly this is more of a reflection of the British attitude of apologising and not wanting to be seen to be making a fuss..

I was going to go on a lengthy rant ...however i deleted most of it. a few minor points

1) Drugs are illeagal for a reason...It's not just to spoil peoples fun..

2) Frankly I feel this thread reflects fully the sad state of the Country, where law abiding honest folk are cowed by the actions of the mindless. Where asking someone to refrain from inane behaviour is seen as wrong and inane behaviour is rewarded by amusement from some at the discomfort of others

If we condone this activity what other illeagal activity do we condone..

[AlrightJack]

I can just see the headline in Bluff magazine

"Shock horror: poker player behaves badly at the table."

...

[AlrightJack]

I'd love to be at the meeting at the casino if someone suggests they should look into customers' cocaine use. think it'd be a short meeting

so it impairs the punters judgement and will keep them awake all night? and you think we should try to stop them using it?

they'd probably consider putting the stuff in the free coffees if they thought they could get away with it

The people who run and work in casinos are not monsters.

[AlrightJack]

Sometimes the tone of posts on here resembles the tone of god fearing bible bashers.

[AlrightJack]

May he who is without sin cast the first stone (that's stone, not stoned)

[phatomch]

I wont mention any names but I know of td's that go to the toilets with players for a line.

And casino's do take a very serious stance on drugs. All grosvenors arm the doorman with kits that can detect coke and check the toilets regulary, but you dont have to be on drugs to act like a fool on the table just look at the Romanello boys or Marty Wilson, nice people but ennoying to many on the table. Or that big poof Barry Neville he's rude, loud and annoying but still some find him funny some dont.

[Dingdell]

I can just see the headline in Bluff magazine

"Shock horror: poker player behaves badly at the table."

...

Or if it was in Poker News it might read  "Shock horrer: pokker player behaves badly at the tabel."

[PocketLady]

Inappropriate behaviour at the Poker table is innapropriate behaviour...regardless of if it's drug fuelled or alcohol fuelled.

Sadly this is more of a reflection of the British attitude of apologising and not wanting to be seen to be making a fuss..

I was going to go on a lengthy rant ...however i deleted most of it. a few minor points

1) Drugs are illeagal for a reason...It's not just to spoil peoples fun..

2) Frankly I feel this thread reflects fully the sad state of the Country, where law abiding honest folk are cowed by the actions of the mindless. Where asking someone to refrain from inane behaviour is seen as wrong and inane behaviour is rewarded by amusement from some at the discomfort of others

If we condone this activity what other illeagal activity do we condone..

Lol, I don't condone many illegal activites, but it is the same with prostitution.  Although I don't like the idea of anyone selling themselves, if it was legal brothels and the like could be regulated, and it would be far safer than the women walking round the streets getting picked up in strangers' cars all night.  We make not like it, but it's never ever going to stop.  Prostitution and drugs have been around since the dawn of time anyone who thinks it's ever going stop is kidding themselves, so why fight it?  Why not make it safer?  It would reduce a lot of other serious crimes like murder, organised crime, theft.  

I'm aware I'm treading on dangerous ground here, and without wishing to get into a full blown arguement about whether or not drugs should be legalised, I would ask, if the health risks are no more than the health risks associated with alcohol consumption, if the person in question is not offensive, violent, or disruptive, and if the drugs are for recreational purposes, really, what is the harm at all?  Drugs are illegal for several reasons.  One is because they are addictive, another is because they can be dangerous.  But we all know that smoking a spliff or doing a line of coke isn't going to kill us.  Ok, if we overdose we might, but if you go and drink 40 litres of water in a day you'll probably die too.  Alcohol and cigarettes are addictive, they are legal, and they both can kill you if you have enough. There are probably other reasons too, like I said I know it's not a simple as that.  

I'm not talking about allowing people to shoot up heroin in the middle of a street, but some of the lower class drugs are much safer than alcohol even.  For example, the BBC recently did a documentary that listed the top 20 most dangerous drugs.  Heroin was 1st followed by cocaine, mainly because of their addictive properties.  Alcohol was number 5 and tobacco was 9th.  Cannabis was 11th, and Ecstasy and LSD were even lower than that.  Ketamine came 6th, making it deemed safer than alcohol!  Make what you will.    

Asking someone to refrain from inane behaviour is not the question here.  We ALL have the right to do that if we so wish, but technically they are not doing anything wrong.  If you have a problem with something someone is doing that is not disrupting the game or being offensive, then you should be telling them that.  The TD has no jurisdiction in this area if it aint about the poker.

[PocketLady]

I'm not saying that you can't report suspected drug abuse to the TD, of course you can if you want, they are illegal at the end of the day, whatever I may say.  I wouldn't personally though, because from the sounds of it I would want this guy on my table, just like I would want a piss head on my table too.  Also, I'm not sure the TD would be able to do anything about it anyway, short of having the guy physically searched.