Phil Hellmuth - Is he really all that?

[FuglyBaz]

I couldn't think of anything good to post about, so I thought I'd just start a post about a random player. Phil is probably one of the most talked about players and is obviously a great player. But do you guys think he is 'that' great, or is his hype unjustified somewhat?

For what it's worth, I think he has great instinct. And he can play aggressive which is good. But what surprises me is how he blows up so easily. How on earth has he won all these titles, and earned millions with such a low tolerance to bad beats and bad play in general?

Does he play the non-holdem games well, but not well enough? Or is he just tez at them?

He is obviously a character, and there are constant question marks raised about the man. So I thought, why not ask for your opinions.

[booder]

I couldn't think of anything good to post about,

never stopped Boldie and Kinfishi

[boldie]

I couldn't think of anything good to post about,

never stopped Boldie and Kinfishi

+1.


Hellmuth is the best NLHE live donkament player in the world, if you believe the WSOP stats.

I think he's a twat, a cheat and has no morals (UB anyone?).

Getting more bracelets than anyone else in NLHE events doesn't make him the best player overall in the world..and we've seen on HSP that he cant hack it in the cashgames.

And he looks like Shamu the white whale.

[George2Loose]

Whatever you think of Hellmuth he can play- also great marketing machine. He's probably made just as much outside opker as he has done playing it

[Karabiner]

Whatever you think of Hellmuth he can play- also great marketing machine. He's probably made just as much outside opker as he has done playing it

Tells a good jopke too

[bolt pp]

the answer is yes

end thread

[ShatnerPants]

He's the greatest self publicist the game has ever seen.  Given that he earns most of his money away from the tables, the poker is just a way keeping him in front of the cameras.

And any publicity is good, etc etc.

I mean, he appears every week in PAD, whether he's playing or not.   And he even got on screen during the final table of the WSOP with E dog and De Wolfe in the mixed game.

He's a genius.









Can't stand him btw.

[TheDJ]

For anyone to make money for playing poker (ie) not winnings, marketing etc, you must be quite succesful, I think he is every poker websites ideal marketing tool. As a poker player, yes he must have something due to the WSOP wins but I also think, he is reckless etc, and likes to make moves and does not liked it when he looked up...

Im very much like him, i like to talk alot, sometimes a good thing, but mostly complete rubbish (as a few blondes will know who have shared tables with me) which i think gives him an egde, but there are alot of other players, i could think of that, I think are better with a less well known world wide reputation

[Royal Flush]

He's probably made just as much outside opker as he has done playing it

Off table earnings probably about 10x on table earnings.

Thing is you see him on these TV tournaments and he is talking like a complete idiot about hands, like making out re-raising a LP raiser with A9 is crazy (hand between himi and durrrr) cllaiming his move was so good, any decent internet player probably does it 10x a day. There is other stuff as well like his actual play when i have seen it on TV looks tez, at first i thought this was an all act for the TV, lord knows i talk a shit game when i play so my opponents dont think i will make a move, however Hellmuth has such an ego i can't see him making himself look stupid on TV for meta game purposes (that's actual meta game not that drivel the other self publicist the dean fella was talking about)

Basically i don't know but he appears to not be that good but selects his games well in that he plays players who are bad and think he is great.

[MANTIS01]

I doubt most of what you see on TV is the real Hellmuth. The guy makes a lot of money trading off the poker brat image, and so TV time is a good opportunity to maintain that. The fact that he makes 10x as much from his image suggests his strat is actually pretty good. And a good strategist is going to make a decent poker player.

Whether he does flip out for real is doubtful. I think to hate him for that is to swallow the image too readily. But whatever, it's an easy personna to dislike. He's not a twat though. He's squeezing the pips out of the poker industry so fair play to him.

[Grier78]

The key to Phil's success is that he makes you play badly against him, much the same as Jaime Gold. He can beat all the donkeys all day long but struggles against the best.

I don't think anyone will beat his record for WSOP bracelets though.

[FuglyBaz]

The key to Phil's success is that he makes you play badly against him, much the same as Jaime Gold. He can beat all the donkeys all day long but struggles against the best.

I don't think anyone will beat his record for WSOP bracelets though.

Pretty much spot on really. I think Allen Cunningham might be the only person at this time, who can beat Hellmuths record. Can't rule out Ivey or Negreanu as they are young enough, but I just can't see them doing it because of their style.

[LeKnave]

He's probably made just as much outside opker as he has done playing it

Off table earnings probably about 10x on table earnings.

yeah was gonna say!

Its comedy when he shows up at wsop finalls just to recieve kudos and applause though.

But as asked, is he all that? probably, he crushes live nl torns like no-one else.

[smileriraq]

Hes a good player obviously but given the millions of dollars invested in the sport what makes him stand out from the other "good players"

simple

his Persona!!!! I think he plays his image up a lot and probably isnt like that off camera but hes identifiable and thats what TV wants from poker players , im sure people who try to copy his antics in normal poker rooms hed probably have a few slaps. My main issue is that he gives no credit to the other players move if they do it hes a donkey if he does it hes a genius

Been tempted to sign up for his white - black belt poker course but still waiting to read others reviews on it before parting with cash

[Hairydude]

1989 $10,000 No Limit Hold'em World Championship $755,000
1992 $5,000 Limit Hold'em $168,000 
1993 $1,500 No Limit Hold'em $161,400   
1993 $2,500 No Limit Hold'em $173,000   
1993 $5,000 Limit Hold'em $138,000     
1997 $3,000 Pot Limit Hold'em $204,000     
2001 $2,000 No Limit Hold'em $316,550     
2003 $2,500 Limit Hold'em $171,400     
2003 $3,000 No Limit Hold'em $410,860     
2006 $1,000 No Limit Hold'em with rebuys $631,863     
2007 $1,500 No Limit Hold'em $637,254     

He cant be that bad to win all these bracelets with ever expanding fields- He does play pretty much every WSOP event available though- I would be very interested to see his ROI for the WSOP alone over the past 19 years. At cash though I very much doubt he could crush the biggest game