Tales from the Toon. The ups and downs of an NUFC supporter....

[pleno1]

he played well today i think, makes the wrong choice a lot of the time but created chances today.

[mondatoo]

Another dead deadline day, another sale of one our best players not replaced.

Confirmed we have nothing to complain about.

Anyone have any idea why Joe Kinnear has a job or what he's actually doing ?

Really not looking forward to tmoro, or the rest of this season, or the rest of the duration of Ashley in charge.

DIABOLICAL!

[pleno1]

Net last 5 seasons:

1 Manchester City £479,950,000
2 Chelsea £269,759,000
3 Manchester United £138,750,000
4 Stoke City £91,175,000
5 Liverpool £89,400,000
6 Aston Villa £86,000,000
7 Southampton £60,750,000
8 Hull City £47,775,000
9 Sunderland £46,930,000
10 Cardiff City £40,470,000
11 West Ham £30,550,000
12 Norwich City £21,650,000
13 Swansea £18,745,000
14 West Bromwich Albion £14,726,000
15 Crystal Palace £11,950,000
16 Fulham £10,880,000
17 Tottenham £3,850,000
18 Arsenal -£4,125,000
19 Everton -£12,315,500
20 Newcastle -£45,000,000

[pleno1]

fucking stoke haha

[tikay]

We measure success by how much we spend?

[pleno1]

We measure success by how much we spend?

No I guess we measure ambition.

[tikay]

We measure success by how much we spend?

No I guess we measure ambition.

Agreed, but ambition can also encompass Youth Academies, & not spending beyond a Club's means too, I'd say.

Arsenal get ripped to bits for being prudent with money, & are trophy-less for more years than we can remember - but THE most important thing, I'd argue, is that the club pays its way, & is not beholden to wealthy investors who might just wave goodbye at any time. Better a trophy-less Arsenal than a skint Arsenal.

Did you see the Man C story this wek? It seems they sold the Club's Image Rights for £50 millon to a mysterious & un-named Company, the suspicion being they are tryng to circumvent Fair Play regulations. Are the Man City shareholders & fans sleeping easy at night with that sort of stuff lurking in the background? To me, success needs to be a sustainable thing, think Liverpool in the 70's & 80's, Man U the next 25 years - that is the target, surely, not one-season wonders?

All football fans seem to urge their Teams to spend spend spend, which is easy when it is not their money. They chunter a bit when they go into Administration, too.

I don't have a problem with Clubs being asked to spend more, but I think it is a balance thing, & we should not judge them by how much they spend, but rather by sustainability.

[pleno1]

I agree too but when we are;

1) stable
2) have the 3rd/4th biggest ground in the country
3) above ground always full
4) received some of the biggest transfer fees for our players (35m Carroll, 20m cabaye)
5) top 5 in the country in terms of global support
6) recently been in Europe and received money for that
7) have as much TV money as most of the teams in the premiership

I is sad for fans of the club who are without doubt amongst the most loyal in the premiership to be told by pardew "finishing 8th is like winning the league for us" outside of city the other positions are really,up for grabs if we spent 40m instead of a net gain of 40m that would be 4/5 world class players that would surely make us into a guarantee top 4/5 team. From their champions league money would more than make up for that 40m spend and he fans who have been starved of trophies for nearly a century and giving so much to the club would receive something.

We're not asking to spend 90m like stoke. We're not asking to spend 500m like city we would be happy,being 10thmon that table below hull, below Cardiff, below sunderland, below stoke, below Southampton and below Villa.

[tikay]

I agree too but when we are;

1) stable
2) have the 3rd/4th biggest ground in the country
3) above ground always full
4) received some of the biggest transfer fees for our players (35m Carroll, 20m cabaye)
5) top 5 in the country in terms of global support
6) recently been in Europe and received money for that
7) have as much TV money as most of the teams in the premiership

I is sad for fans of the club who are without doubt amongst the most loyal in the premiership to be told by pardew "finishing 8th is like winning the league for us" outside of city the other positions are really,up for grabs if we spent 40m instead of a net gain of 40m that would be 4/5 world class players that would surely make us into a guarantee top 4/5 team. From their champions league money would more than make up for that 40m spend and he fans who have been starved of trophies for nearly a century and giving so much to the club would receive something.

We're not asking to spend 90m like stoke. We're not asking to spend 500m like city we would be happy,being 10thmon that table below hull, below Cardiff, below sunderland, below stoke, below Southampton and below Villa.

Spending that money does not automatically equate to success though, does it?

[pleno1]

I think it would at least help. Lets put it this way, in 2014 in the premier league if we spend -45m then we will be "capped" at probably finishing 5th at absolute very best. If we spent 100m more (50m net spend) I think 5th would be underachieving.

If we didnt have Graham Carr and spent this much money we would almost be certainties for relegation, fortunately weve been able to sign some real gems like Gouffran for 1m etc.

[tikay]

I think it would at least help. Lets put it this way, in 2014 in the premier league if we spend -45m then we will be "capped" at probably finishing 5th at absolute very best. If we spent 100m more (50m net spend) I think 5th would be underachieving.

If we didnt have Graham Carr and spent this much money we would almost be certainties for relegation, fortunately weve been able to sign some real gems like Gouffran for 1m etc.

It might, yes, but it's by no means  a certainty. A look at that "Spend League Table" does not prove much, imo. 

[pleno1]

yes but thats ambition, teams are at least trying. If we try and we fail thats ok, if we dont try and we fail that isnt acceptable.

Football is about winning. Winning games, winning cups, playing with pride. Newcastle annoucned this season to fans that they wouldnt be taking the cups seriously because of the income it generates vs finishing 10th in the league.

[tikay]

yes but thats ambition, teams are at least trying. If we try and we fail thats ok, if we dont try and we fail that isnt acceptable.

Football is about winning. Winning games, winning cups, playing with pride. Newcastle annoucned this season to fans that they wouldnt be taking the cups seriously because of the income it generates vs finishing 10th in the league.

I can't really see the correlation between spending money & playing with pride.

I just think it is a lot wider than just spending money. Academy for juniors, scouting, club infrastructure, if it were my money, they'd be the things I'd want to invest in, for the long-term, not this or next season.

If a Manager came to me as Chairman, & said "give me money & I'll give you a winning team" I'd not even consider employing him.

We shall have to agree to differ, I think, we coiuld bat this back & forth forever.

Money is not the cure all for all ills.   

[pleno1]

Ok so we had a good academy, we brought Carroll through, sold him for 35m the money goes to the chairman and the c,USB doesn't benefit. What's the point?

The way the club is being set up we are looking to not challenge is any cups and aim for 8th to be like winning the league.

How is that fair on the fans who give up their hard money each week every week, travel further than any other fans for away matches and literally bleed black and white.

Everton is a similar club to newcastle, they bring through young players and they have passionate fans. This week Baines arguably their best player opted to sign a contract for life because of the a,bit ion they showed to him whilst cabaye made a deal to leave in this window 6 months ago. That is the difference.

Southampton constantly buying international players to support their very good youth academy, that's the difference.

When Everton lost fellani they replaced him with McCarthy and Barry to make sure they weren't short, we were arguing over 1-2m for players and thus missed out leaving us bare.

We have the biggest joke in the premiership joe kinnear telling fans to judge him on his transfers and "he won't let anybody leave in January" we lose our best player and sign nobody with a 20m net gain for our chairman.

We don't get any money from advertising, all of the advertising is sports direct which is our chairmanship main company.

Almost every club in the premiership has faultless facilities and very solid infrastructure.

The whole "give me money and ill win you something" argument is not what we are saying at all. We don't want nor expect to spend like man city we want to at least compete with hull/Cardiff/villa and sunderland.

We are a joke!

[Cf]

We're shite.

pleno pretty much spot on with everything he's said.

Spending money doesn't necessarily equal success tikay but the way we go about transfers is a bit of a joke. On the one hand we've managed to sign some great players for way under what they're worth, and sold some for way over (e.g. Carroll) but the amount of targets we have and don't sign because of the way we do business is ridiculous.

As far as Mike Ashley is concerned somewhere about 10th place is ideal. Get there with spending as little money as possible, receive the TV income, and have a massive advertising space for his main brand.

We were doing well this season. I still don't rate Pardew but our league position was good with the above spaces up for grabs to anyone who wants them. We've got the money, why not spend some of it and get a couple of players in and make a push for those positions. It's not spending beyond our means. And when you've got Shola Ameobi getting in the starting XI never mind the bench it's pretty much the definition of needing to buy.

But no. What do we do? We sell arguably our best player and don't replace him. Then get beat 3-0 in the derby.