cant help but feel i fked this up badly.

[AlexMartin]

villain is proper lag, 36/31/8.3 but good, understands hand strength. given we are a little deep whats the best line.

iv included results not to be results orientated but just to get a bit more feedback on how deep affects play.


***** Hand History for Game 432827963 *****
$500.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, October 25, 10:39:46 ET 2008
Table Nitrogen 153 (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Seat 1: SkyLopez ( $796.14 USD )
Seat 4: raise4faith ( $1331.24 USD )
Seat 5: JammyJenny ( $1248.40 USD )
Seat 6: MilesAhead1 ( $405.00 USD )
MilesAhead1 posts small blind [$2.50 USD].
SkyLopez posts big blind [$5.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to JammyJenny [  ]
raise4faith raises [$17.50 USD]
JammyJenny calls [$17.50 USD]
MilesAhead1 folds
SkyLopez calls [$12.50 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ , , ]
SkyLopez checks
raise4faith bets [$41.25 USD]
JammyJenny raises [$121.00 USD]
SkyLopez folds
raise4faith calls [$79.75 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ ]
raise4faith bets [$222.75 USD]
JammyJenny raises [$630.00 USD]
raise4faith raises [$969.99 USD]
JammyJenny calls [$479.90 USD]
raise4faith wins $82.84 USD
raise4faith shows [td, ]
JammyJenny shows [, ]
** Dealing River ** [ ]
raise4faith wins $2514.80 USD from main pot

[maldini32]

Yeah u spooned it. Id flat the turn and swear at the screen when that dirty river hits.

[totalise]

Yeah u spooned it.

how so

Id flat the turn

why

and swear at the screen when that dirty river hits.

why

[WYSINWYG]

wow, you saved me posting a hand analysis, had almost the same hand today, flopped set of fives. I made a huge reraise on the flop in position. The turn made an obvious straight missing 7 only. I checked to a check though, presuming he had hit, and hoping for a pairing board on the river. As it was he took that check as meaning I had a big hand and no straight, he went ahead and potted the blank river. I almost curiosity called to see if the git had missed a flush draw, looked a lot like it.
Anyway when you make a big flop reraise there and he calls you can start narrowing down his range, the Ace looks a lot like a straight completing. He already knows you have a massive hand and is only reraising now if he beats it.

Unlucky tho. I've seen 555 just shove the flop there and if he wants to take chances with his open ended, so be it.

[WYSINWYG]

Yeah u spooned it.

how so

Id flat the turn

why

and swear at the screen when that dirty river hits.

why

I'd flat the turn also, looking like he got there, like I said I'm looking for board to pair. Maybe I'm wrong too and you can correct me.

--Unless he's on AJ 

[jezza777]

This seems fairly standard to me , not too sure about checking it costs our hand value.

[totalise]

Yeah u spooned it.

how so

Id flat the turn

why

and swear at the screen when that dirty river hits.

why

I'd flat the turn also, looking like he got there, like I said I'm looking for board to pair. Maybe I'm wrong too and you can correct me.

--Unless he's on AJ 

I mean, if you are looking for the board to pair, then you are putting his range squarely on K10! and if hes a good solid thinking player, his range is much wider.... and if you aren't putting him squarely on K10, which you shouldn't, then you shouldn't be overly pissed off if the 10 comes as it puts up a real gin card for the other guy to bluff at. Thats only a simple level analysis though, but the point is, putting someone who is good, on a range of one solitary hand, isnt good.

IN this spot, personally if I flatted the turn, I'd be a hell of a lot happier if a raggedy ass  7 came on the river rather then the board pairing.

[WYSINWYG]

Yeah u spooned it.

how so

Id flat the turn

why

and swear at the screen when that dirty river hits.

why

I'd flat the turn also, looking like he got there, like I said I'm looking for board to pair. Maybe I'm wrong too and you can correct me.

--Unless he's on AJ 

I mean, if you are looking for the board to pair, then you are putting his range squarely on K10! and if hes a good solid thinking player, his range is much wider.... and if you aren't putting him squarely on K10, which you shouldn't, then you shouldn't be overly pissed off if the 10 comes as it puts up a real gin card for the other guy to bluff at. Thats only a simple level analysis though, but the point is, putting someone who is good, on a range of one solitary hand, isnt good.

IN this spot, personally if I flatted the turn, I'd be a hell of a lot happier if a raggedy ass  7 came on the river rather then the board pairing.

Ok thanks.

If K10 is just part of his range then we are beating his range with a set, so we reraise, as above, and he reraises, as above. I look long and hard at the lead out he makes on the turn. It being an Ace, it still keeps his range fairly wide. I'd expect a check/call check/raise there a lot with KT though eh?
In my very similar hand today, I was seeking to control the pot size until I knew I really was ahead. Ok for me it was a much more obvious straight for everyone involved, but when he checks, I bet, and he potreraises, then what do I do?

The annals of bigpotslost are littered with sets versus straights and straights versus boats. But I do see where you're coming from and take it on board.

[totalise]

maybe, who knows.

we aren't flatting pre very often with QQ/JJ/AA, so if villain turns 2 pair he should feel quite confident its ahead, so he can bet it for protection/value, and also at the same time he knows its a good card to bet at, and we should know that, so theres a myriad of mind games going on at any one time.

Im not even saying flat is a bad play at all, all im saying is that the reasons for flattin the turn shouldn't be diluted if a "scare" card comes on the river.

The problem in general with the theory of controlling the pot until you "know" you are ahead is that you are usually pissing equity into the wind.

[maldini32]

Im not flatting the turn for the board pair, im doing it to trap so he can fire the river oop and we can then get it in. I don't mind alex getting it in on the flop, but i think once villain 4bets our hand does'nt feel that strong anymore. Id also be flatting the turn to control pot as we are deeeeep.

BUT im not a cash game player and your the daddy, so i take your points aboard sir.

[totalise]

thats much better 

I wasn't saying you are wrong to play it like you advocate, but useless one liners without explanation dont help anyone (unless you are Dubai, his one liners are more then welcome!)

[AlexMartin]

Im not flatting the turn for the board pair, im doing it to trap so he can fire the river oop and we can then get it in. I don't mind alex getting it in on the flop, but i think once villain 4bets our hand does'nt feel that strong anymore. Id also be flatting the turn to control pot as we are deeeeep.

BUT im not a cash game player and your the daddy, so i take your points aboard sir.

i cannot use pot control when the pot is bigger than our remaining stack on the river v an aggro opponent. its pretty clear that villain knows this is a shite spot to bluff given his image/action. im just wondering whether i can actually fold this turn as its clear he wants to get it in and he isnt just barreling an ace coz its an ace, he has a hand. The way i see it i beat AQ and he knows my range realistically is K10/55/QJ and air.

[maldini32]

Im not flatting the turn for the board pair, im doing it to trap so he can fire the river oop and we can then get it in. I don't mind alex getting it in on the flop, but i think once villain 4bets our hand does'nt feel that strong anymore. Id also be flatting the turn to control pot as we are deeeeep.

BUT im not a cash game player and your the daddy, so i take your points aboard sir.

i cannot use pot control when the pot is bigger than our remaining stack on the river v an aggro opponent. its pretty clear that villain knows this is a shite spot to bluff given his image/action. im just wondering whether i can actually fold this turn as its clear he wants to get it in and he isnt just barreling an ace coz its an ace, he has a hand. The way i see it i beat AQ and he knows my range realistically is K10/55/QJ and air.

Once he 4 bets you know your fucked but there is so much in the pot and he could be doin it with 2 pr that i think u have to call.

[snoopy1239]

Thought you played it fine tbh.

[Dubai]

The hand looks totally fine and if he has AQ you dont think about the hand for more than 5 seconds