blonde poker forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 28, 2024, 10:04:51 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
2272476 Posts in 66752 Topics by 16944 Members
Latest Member: Blader
* Home Help Arcade Search Calendar Guidelines Login Register
+  blonde poker forum
|-+  Poker Forums
| |-+  Poker Hand Analysis
| | |-+  Learning Centre (Moderators: Longy, JungleCat03)
| | | |-+  Beginners guide to Holdem Manager
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 ... 10 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Beginners guide to Holdem Manager  (Read 76528 times)
Jim-D
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4139



View Profile
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2009, 10:41:16 PM »

Does Holdemmanager track all your sit n go results, roi, itm and $'s won/lost?
Logged
Longy
Professional Hotel Locator.
Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 10064


Go Ducks!


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2009, 10:51:27 PM »

Does Holdemmanager track all your sit n go results, roi, itm and $'s won/lost?

It does as of this week and it is pretty good as well imo. They have incorporated a lot of tourney manager into holdem manager basically.
Logged
Jim-D
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4139



View Profile
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2009, 10:54:34 PM »

Thanks Longy, Just in time for my assault on the tables
Logged
jizzemm
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2923


BB6 Footy Winners - WALES.


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2009, 04:25:42 PM »

Holdem Manager or PT3 or something else Huh?

looking to download something new, used PT2, and that was fine, HM i have tried to instal in the past and i could not do it, or more to the point I could not get it to load hands.
Logged

"I want to talk about my hand, what do you mean I cant talk about my hand, right im going to talk about the fact that I cant talk about my hand"...
thetank
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 19284



View Profile
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2009, 03:35:25 PM »

Was busy yesterday, I'll update this thread today.



Holdem Manager or PT3 or something else Huh?

looking to download something new, used PT2, and that was fine, HM i have tried to instal in the past and i could not do it, or more to the point I could not get it to load hands.

Not tried both, but the reports I've heard suggest that Holdem Manager is softer on your computer's processor, for hands that do dishes.
Logged

For super fun to exist, well defined parameters must exist for the super fun to exist within.
thetank
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 19284



View Profile
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2009, 04:03:06 AM »


Was busy yesterday, I'll update this thread today.


Will I bollox

Tomorrow perhaps
Logged

For super fun to exist, well defined parameters must exist for the super fun to exist within.
thetank
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 19284



View Profile
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2009, 12:48:38 PM »

Will update on Wednesdays from now on coz my Wednesday schedule is light and my Thursday schedule is heavy.



Using VPIP/PFR : Late Stages

As discussed previously, players will change their hand ranges considerably in different game conditions. We filter hands for the amount of players at table, but not for what people's stack sizes are, or indeed the blind levels.

The likelyhood of innacurate figures is even greater in the later stages, either the VPIP or the PFR by themselves is not to be trusted as much.

Despite the figures being less reliable on their own, I believe that using the information from them in the later stages will gain us much more tournament equity than at the beggining.


What I mostly concentrate on, is not either stat by itself, but rather the difference between the two. (VPIP minus PFR)

If the VPIP minus PFR is high, the likelyhood of someone being a habitual 'high blind limper' is also high.


High blind limping

High blind limping is open-calling pre-flop when the blinds are large.

This is almost always a bad thing to do in sit n gos. Good players should be raising to give them a chance of winning the blinds (often an all-in raise), or folding to conserve precious chips.
Trying to see lots of inexpensive flops when the blinds are high is a losing strategy.

A high blind limper is a great thing to have at your table for two reasons...

Firstly, their playing more hands in this manner generates action at the table by allowing other players to see a cheap flop (they might both hit something, and of course, when another player gets knocked out, while our stack stands still, our equity generally skyrockets)
Secondly, they provide us with a lot of spots where we can steal their chips and we can increase our own stack and equity that way.


Spot!

If you've played online poker for about five minutes (or live poker for about an hour) you'll know that dominating your opponent pre-flop doesn't always guarantee a victory, far from it.

Simply playing tight so that your hands are generally better than your opponents is not always enough to be a winning plater. The chips we gain from winning are not often worth the chips we'll lose when the villain binks their flush on the river.
Yes it's generally good for our bank balance to have the best hand, but the equity it might get us may not necessary compensate for the blinds we had to post while we were waiting for that good hand.

We should all be familiar with the tournament player who loses money even though "I always seem to get it in with the best hand"
The poker world is full of them, and they will bemoan their bad luck till the cows go home.

We make more money in tournaments by picking spots where we can signifacantly improve our chip position without having to go to a showdown. To avoid running the gauntlet of five community cards and donks binking their kickers.
When I'm talking about a spot, I'm talking about an oppurtunity to do just this, to win pots without showdown.

Most of these spots will be when the pot is unopened, you can raise or push all-in, and you only have to worry about the people to your left calling.
Raising or pushing over a pot that has already been opened by one or more limpers is also sometimes an option. These pots can be a little more dangerous, but they can also be much more lucrative.


Limped pots

When this happens, it's really good to know how often the player who has limped is limping. From this we can suss out how wide their likely range of cards is and (based on other reads) the likelyhood of getting called were we to push.

If their VPIP minus PFR is large, they are limping a whole lot. We should always be on the lookout for potential spots, especially when our stack is in danger of getting too low.

If their VPIP minus PFR is pretty low, we have to wonder why the hell are they limping? Could be a good chance that they have a fantastic hand and are looking to trap you.

Successfully stealing the blinds in an open pot will increase our stack by 1.5 big blinds.
Successfully stealing the blinds in a limped pot will increase our stack by 2.5 big blinds, or even more if there are multiple limper.

The risks might be slightly larger, but so are the rewards. We should always be on the lookout for prime spots to push over limpers.
 

Using this.


I think the best way to demonstrate how to apply this will be to give you some examples of hand historys where I've been in a spot where I can potentially push over one or more limpers, some are kinda marginal and I've deliberately included these so that you see how the opponents VPIP-PFR has influenced my decision and tipped the balance.

Feel free to disagree with any of the desicions I make in the hands I'm about to post. (The first one in particular may be rather dodgy, indeed I am pretty sure I did the wrong thing.)
« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 02:54:02 PM by thetank » Logged

For super fun to exist, well defined parameters must exist for the super fun to exist within.
thetank
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 19284



View Profile
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2009, 01:05:20 PM »

This is a screenshot I've taken of a hand I played a couple of weeks ago.

We are on the button at the 80/160 blind level. Ayemate is the UTG player who has limped.

In my HUD, the number of hands played is on the first line.
The first two numbers on the second line are that players VPIP and PFR respectively.

So I have 158 hands on Ayemate.
He has VPIP of 22% and PFR of 5%

 Click to see full-size image.


Additional reads.

I have seen Ayemate limp and fold to a raise preflop before. I have also seen him fold to a re-raise.

obtenir argent is a good player, he is short so looking for a good spot himself, and he knows how I play. Despite this, I don't think he will call we too wide from the small blind with this many players at the table (he has a bit more time) and with the blinds still in the medium/large rather than large category. There are other regulars I play who would call me much wider in this spot.

The big blind I don't have too much info on, but have no reason to suspect they will call me super loose.

I think both blinds (even though obtenir knows me) will call me tighter than had I open shoved, because they also have to worry about UTG.


So it's definately a spot worth thinking about, but is K9s good enough to push here?
« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 02:45:57 PM by thetank » Logged

For super fun to exist, well defined parameters must exist for the super fun to exist within.
thetank
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 19284



View Profile
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2009, 01:38:04 PM »

Here's two hand history's from a tournament I played at the weekend. The hands happen one after the other.


Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $60/$120 Blinds

Hero
SB ($770)
BB ($3,045)
UTG ($1,675)
UTG+1 ($1,385)
UTG+2 ($1,385)
CO ($3,265)
BTN ($1,975)

Dealt to Hero  three clubs three diamonds

UTG fold
UTG+1 fold
UTG+2 call 120,
CO fold
BTN call 120
Hero raises to $770
BB fold
UTG+2 fold
BTN fold



Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $80/$160 Blinds

SB ($2,925)
BB ($1,675)
UTG ($1,385)
UTG+1 ($1,265)
UTG+2 ($3,265)
CO ($1,855)
Hero BTN ($1,130)

Dealt to Hero 

UTG fold
UTG+1 call
UTG+2 call
CO fold
Hero raises to $1,130
SB fold
BB fold
UTG+1 fold
UTG+2 fold




You can see how winning these pots was a massive boost. I've doubled up from t770 to t1690 in two hands without having to win a showdown.

I was pretty lucky to find these spots, and they're both pretty clear cut, but I've put them here to illustrate how important they are.

As for VPIPs and PFRs, I jotted down what they were for the players invlolved in these hands. 33/10, 17/10 and 26/11
so they are both limping a lot.

If one of the players who opened the pot had a VPIP/PFR of something like 15/12 or 24/26 then I would not have pushed all-in on either hand. It is just too likely that the player limping is trapping.
Logged

For super fun to exist, well defined parameters must exist for the super fun to exist within.
byronkincaid
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5027



View Profile
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2009, 01:39:15 PM »

Does Holdemmanager track all your sit n go results, roi, itm and $'s won/lost?

It does as of this week and it is pretty good as well imo. They have incorporated a lot of tourney manager into holdem manager basically.

i updated today but can't work out how to do this??? I click on the "tourney" tab and I should have a "results" tab underneath it? I haven't, I've got reports/preflop cards/hands/sessions/graphs like I do if I'm in the "Cash" tab. If I click on sessions or graphs it says "not currently available for tourneys"

confuzzed Sad

Logged
thetank
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 19284



View Profile
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2009, 01:48:06 PM »

Here's a spot which I believe is not quite an ATC shove (profitable to go all-in with 'any two cards') but almost.

I like this one because the HUD made all the difference.
UTG's VPIP/PFR was 29/3 (and wasn't the type of player who would call my shove with QJo)

If UTG's stats were 23/10 or something like that, I probably would have passed.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $100/$200

SB ($2,265)
BB ($3,520)
UTG ($1,525)
UTG+1 ($1,830)
Hero CO ($1,340)
BTN ($3,020)

Dealt to Hero  three clubs

UTG call
UTG+1 fold
Hero raises to $1,340
BTN fold
SB fold
BB fold
UTG fold


Those 500 chips were very helpful.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 02:32:55 PM by thetank » Logged

For super fun to exist, well defined parameters must exist for the super fun to exist within.
thetank
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 19284



View Profile
« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2009, 02:21:22 PM »

Couple more hands with screenshots coz I think they're better. Easier to visualize the situation because, well, you don't have to.

 Click to see full-size image.


Here we see villain has limped from the CO at the 50/100 blind level.

I'm in the small blind with 58s. Instead of insta-folding, I can see from the CO's HUD stats of 40/16 that he is limping loads, and that this is probably an ok spot for a steal.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 02:41:44 PM by thetank » Logged

For super fun to exist, well defined parameters must exist for the super fun to exist within.
thetank
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 19284



View Profile
« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2009, 02:23:56 PM »

The next hand we go back to what we were talking about last week. It's from the early levels.

 Click to see full-size image.


I'm UTG+1 with 99 and I've chosen to limp. (A raise would have been ok too, and I'd raise here some of the time)

The CO has made it 180 to go.

This is usually an annoying spot where I'm not too sure what to do. We're not deep enough to flat, going all-in might be ok against the right opponent, but against a pretty tight player it's a losing play.

I can see that the CO has been raising a lot (his stats are 33/19) so I can go ahead and make the raise all-in with a with a reasonable degree of confidence that I'm making the right move.

Note the very small sample size of only 42 hands though, this is the first time I've seen this player. There is a chance he's a tight player having a run of cards, but not too big a chance that it stops me shoving here.

« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 02:48:55 PM by thetank » Logged

For super fun to exist, well defined parameters must exist for the super fun to exist within.
thetank
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 19284



View Profile
« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2009, 02:32:01 PM »

Lastly, going back to that K9s hand.

I went all-in, and although everyone folded, I'm pretty sure I made a -EV play.
UTG was just not loose enough to warrant that move.

The VPIP minus PFR on the screen was misleading me.

I play regular speed sit n gos and at the 80/160 level we have usually lost 3 or 4 players already. We are still 8 handed here though, so the 22/5 figure for UTG will include all the early blind play where limping with a lot of hands (such as small pocket pairs) is common, (and often a good play, don't believe anything you've read in an article by The Dean).
I cannot confidently put UTG on being a high blind limper with the stats currently displayed.

If we were 6-handed and UTG was still displaying a stat of arounf 22/5 this may have been an ok play. (but still pretty marginal)

Probably not the best of examples then, but hopefully it will have given you something to think about.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 02:46:46 PM by thetank » Logged

For super fun to exist, well defined parameters must exist for the super fun to exist within.
EvilPie
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14253



View Profile
« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2009, 03:06:33 PM »

This is interesting stuff Tank thanks.

I was just curious after reading this last example. You say that the vpip/pfr figure has to be interpreted differently depending on whether you are 6 or 8 handed.

Does HEM filter the figures and adjust them as players drop out or does this have to be done manually?
Logged

Motivational speeches at their best:

"Because thats what living is, the 6 inches in front of your face......" - Patrick Leonard - 10th May 2015
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 ... 10 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.178 seconds with 22 queries.