Awkward Stack Size from GUKPT Main Event

[NoflopsHomer]

I cant see Marc Goodwin going crazy on this flop vs u (unless you'd done some crazy stuff).  he surely knows your not going to go broke with 77-JJ on this flop so i dont think he'd 3bet the flop with a big pair therefore i think your going to struggle to 4bet allin on flop.  I like the line of raising flop then if villian peels you have more options on turn.  if he leads into you on turn (unlikely imo) id jam any turn card.  If you dont improve deicde on what your image has been as to whether you'll be able to barrel (including being prepared to barrel river since he could peel again with AA-99 with a plan to fold to your river shove).  If you table image is a bit shit/ you dont think he feels like folding i might check back turn (obviously your hand is face up if you do this). if you improved on turn I'd try decide best route for max value.  Alternatively I'd probably just peel the flop.

This is why I like a larger than average raise, we can barrel most turns for around 60 - 70% of his stack knowing he'll have to commit on the turn and I think give up a good % of the time as all he beats here is 4-5 and 5-6 and have most likely 13 outs on the river if not. But I have a nittier image than most so it works better for me.

Against someone like Dave Smith, deffo check/call flop though!

[Blatch]

Ok seems like everyone is feeling the raise is best way fwd but no one has really mentioned to how much.

I have a stack of around 15k ish and I think to make a proper raise here would have to be to around 3200-3600 total leaving much around 11k behind.  What worries me here is it leaves me no room or any fold equity to 4 bet here.  If we are both deep enough then obviously the 4 bet is clearly the way fwd and what I would ahve done but I cant do that here.  If i raise and the flop then if Marc raises his only raise really is putting me all in.  Is this what we want?

If I raise and he flat calls what do we do on the turn if he shoves / checks to a scarey / blank card?

[Blatch]

Also Neil, why didn't you call after that or whatever the flop was after the guy raised you then already had his whole stack in the middle in case you pushed when you clearly had an overpair? Once he did that, it was obvious he was on a big draw and you could call and shove/check-shove any blank turn (I can't remember the stack sizes).

As soon as he did that stupid move of putting all his chips over the line I knew he had the comnbi draw and in theory im mathematically behind.  At this stage of the comp (2nd level) I wasnt willing to gamble my entire stack, when probably behind slightly, with so many easy chips at the table. 

If someone went all in on the 2nd level after you have comiited 2k in chips out oif a 15k stack and he flipped 88 and you have  do you call?  Personally I dont.

[NoflopsHomer]

Also Neil, why didn't you call after that or whatever the flop was after the guy raised you then already had his whole stack in the middle in case you pushed when you clearly had an overpair? Once he did that, it was obvious he was on a big draw and you could call and shove/check-shove any blank turn (I can't remember the stack sizes).

As soon as he did that stupid move of putting all his chips over the line I knew he had the comnbi draw and in theory im mathematically behind.  At this stage of the comp (2nd level) I wasnt willing to gamble my entire stack, when probably behind slightly, with so many easy chips at the table. 

If someone went all in on the 2nd level after you have comiited 2k in chips out oif a 15k stack and he flipped 88 and you have  do you call?  Personally I dont.

But the raise was from 600 to 2,400 IIRC and because he's pushed out of turn, you could call for a ruling and I guess the original bet would stand and then you can just shove a blank turn. That way if he binks the turn, you can fold for the rest and if he doesn't you're getting the majority of your stack as a 3/1 fav. The AK/88 scenario isn't a fair comparison here because of the way your opponent bet his stack on the flop.

[MANTIS01]

Ask Goodwin if he's going to call if you raise?

[Blatch]

Also Neil, why didn't you call after that or whatever the flop was after the guy raised you then already had his whole stack in the middle in case you pushed when you clearly had an overpair? Once he did that, it was obvious he was on a big draw and you could call and shove/check-shove any blank turn (I can't remember the stack sizes).

As soon as he did that stupid move of putting all his chips over the line I knew he had the comnbi draw and in theory im mathematically behind.  At this stage of the comp (2nd level) I wasnt willing to gamble my entire stack, when probably behind slightly, with so many easy chips at the table. 

If someone went all in on the 2nd level after you have comiited 2k in chips out oif a 15k stack and he flipped 88 and you have  do you call?  Personally I dont.

But the raise was from 600 to 2,400 IIRC and because he's pushed out of turn, you could call for a ruling and I guess the original bet would stand and then you can just shove a blank turn. That way if he binks the turn, you can fold for the rest and if he doesn't you're getting the majority of your stack as a 3/1 fav. The AK/88 scenario isn't a fair comparison here because of the way your opponent bet his stack on the flop.

Ok ill give you the not fair comparison

Didnt ask for the ruling as was certain action you describve would be right.  Problem was I wasnt 100% which combi draw he was on and therefore a lot more scare cards could come.  Was simply just a case of me not 100% knowing what he has and then me wanting to get my chips in at better spots, especially a were three absolute mugs at the table, including one very chipped up.

[Blatch]

Ask Goodwin if he's going to call if you raise?

Thanks

[doubleup]

Ok seems like everyone is feeling the raise is best way fwd but no one has really mentioned to how much.

pls read the responses Mr Flushy has instructed you to raise a grubby amount and Mr Floppy has instructed you to raise an excessive amount.

[AlexMartin]

Ok seems like everyone is feeling the raise is best way fwd but no one has really mentioned to how much.

I have a stack of around 15k ish and I think to make a proper raise here would have to be to around 3200-3600 total leaving much around 11k behind.  What worries me here is it leaves me no room or any fold equity to 4 bet here.  If we are both deep enough then obviously the 4 bet is clearly the way fwd and what I would ahve done but I cant do that here.  If i raise and the flop then if Marc raises his only raise really is putting me all in.  Is this what we want?

If I raise and he flat calls what do we do on the turn if he shoves / checks to a scarey / blank card?

yeah we did. minraise (click it back to 2k) let him make it 5/6k then shove. easy peasy.

[NoflopsHomer]

Also Neil, why didn't you call after that or whatever the flop was after the guy raised you then already had his whole stack in the middle in case you pushed when you clearly had an overpair? Once he did that, it was obvious he was on a big draw and you could call and shove/check-shove any blank turn (I can't remember the stack sizes).

As soon as he did that stupid move of putting all his chips over the line I knew he had the comnbi draw and in theory im mathematically behind.  At this stage of the comp (2nd level) I wasnt willing to gamble my entire stack, when probably behind slightly, with so many easy chips at the table. 

If someone went all in on the 2nd level after you have comiited 2k in chips out oif a 15k stack and he flipped 88 and you have  do you call?  Personally I dont.

But the raise was from 600 to 2,400 IIRC and because he's pushed out of turn, you could call for a ruling and I guess the original bet would stand and then you can just shove a blank turn. That way if he binks the turn, you can fold for the rest and if he doesn't you're getting the majority of your stack as a 3/1 fav. The AK/88 scenario isn't a fair comparison here because of the way your opponent bet his stack on the flop.

Ok ill give you the not fair comparison

Didnt ask for the ruling as was certain action you describve would be right.  Problem was I wasnt 100% which combi draw he was on and therefore a lot more scare cards could come.  Was simply just a case of me not 100% knowing what he has and then me wanting to get my chips in at better spots, especially a were three absolute mugs at the table, including one very chipped up.

Ok, fair enough.

Ok seems like everyone is feeling the raise is best way fwd but no one has really mentioned to how much.

I have a stack of around 15k ish and I think to make a proper raise here would have to be to around 3200-3600 total leaving much around 11k behind.  What worries me here is it leaves me no room or any fold equity to 4 bet here.  If we are both deep enough then obviously the 4 bet is clearly the way fwd and what I would ahve done but I cant do that here.  If i raise and the flop then if Marc raises his only raise really is putting me all in.  Is this what we want?

If I raise and he flat calls what do we do on the turn if he shoves / checks to a scarey / blank card?

Moving back here, Goodwin probably won't re-raise all-in here on the flop, since anything he beats won't call. You need to raise enough so that you can commit him with a turn push, he's not going to fire a blank turn after you raise his flop bet, that would just be silly. If you pop him up to the amount you've specified(I did say before 4k because it leaves him with about a PSB left which we stick him in on the turn, only I feel Marc would more likely call a big bet than a smaller one) he's checking the turn pretty much 100% of the time leaving himself with around 10k. Bet something like 5k/6k on any turn card and call a shove. I think your FE on the turn will be decent enough and I haven't see you play super crazy much so it would probably be +ev for you especially because Marc will still have a 30+ BB stack left over at this point.

[MANTIS01]

Personally I wouldn't want to find myself all-in in this situation. Like you said the chip dynamics are gonna make it difficult to be the one getting it in first - bad. Also to go from 17k to all-in and chasing a draw is - bad. If you raise the flop to 4k what hand are you representing? Would you 4x his bet with the straight or a set? So the bet looks more like air than strength - bad, and gives him the green light to jam the flop with any over-pair. Don't think he floats 1/3 of his stack here, so he prob wont call. Of course your raise could get overs to fold, but you could get overs to fold with atc, so essentially you're bluffing with this hand and hoping he folds if you raise, cos if he calls you're behind - bad. I think your hand has more scope than just to bluff with and you have position here. I prefer the call rather than the raise, your oppo has been quiet so chances are he has some kind of hand - bad. A better hand responds to your raise by jamming and a worse hand responds by folding so raising looks - bad, for lots of reasons.

[Royal Flush]

A better hand responds to your raise by jamming

That is why we don't Castlemain it.

[MANTIS01]

A better hand responds to your raise by jamming

That is why we don't Castlemain it.

You prefer a double?

[NoflopsHomer]

A better hand responds to your raise by jamming

That is why we don't Castlemain it.

You prefer a double?

I suppose minraising works if we betsize it to barrel turn and river correctly.

[doubleup]

A better hand responds to your raise by jamming

That is why we don't Castlemain it.

You prefer a double?

I suppose minraising works if we betsize it to barrel turn and river correctly.

Nah I prefer your first option of a reasonably large raise if we are going to go all the way.  If we are minraising then flushys line of maybe check maybe bet is best.