"Dusk till Dawn" Poker Club In Nottingham Diary (by Rob Yong)

[Kiall]

Kind of have to disagree with the penultimate point. Actions have more an impact then threats. A returned card shows your seriousness and besides it can be stated quite clearly in the letter you'd rejoin as soon as they drop their objection.

[AdamM]

maybe. people risk a lifetime ban from these chains by standing up to them. At least giving them a chance to back down at the threat of lost revenue gives them a chance to do the right thing.

I'm waiting for the announcement before I start writing letters

[robyong]

Well, I don't think whatever me or you guys do we will ACTUALLY influence the casinos, but from a personal point of view, and sometimes to feel a bit better, it does no halm to show any form of protest. The casinos run a monopoly in the UK, if poker players did not play on the gaming tables, they would not be interested in poker, not so long ago poker was kicked out of the casinos, now all of a sudden, they are all poker fans, of course, because it makes a big difference on their house game revenue. I was speaking to some Gala dealers, I never realised the difference in the "house drop" on casino games on poker nights.

However, I don't want to focus too much of mine or your time of these casinos, they are just not worth it. Of course, its irratiating what they have done, but I guess its not unexpected, what was more of a big dissapointment, was how co-operative the UK legal system was with these "blocking tactics", when the Gala brief said "they were busy till Match 2008, and would prefer the hearing to get adjourned till then", I had to really pinch myself!

Thanks for all the efforts, as I said, I'll post shortly the plan for the future, hopefully by the end of the week
Rob

[snoopy1239]

If you have fallen behind and need to catch up, then don't forget that an uninterrupted version of Rob's diary can be found here...

http://www.blondepoker.com/index.php?q=node/1009

[Jon MW]

Everybody can read AdamM's 'DTD objections' thread with suggestions of how to word your letters here - http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=23033.0;topicseen

[Belly Buster]

After Grosvenor shafted the Gutshot I vowed to never set foot in a Grosvenor again (and so far have succeeded).

Now I need to cross off Gala, LCI and Stanleys from my list too.

If enough people do it, it will make a difference to them.

I find it a bit sick that all these companies have "corporate and social responsibility" statements, when in actual fact they demonstrate a total lack of ethical standards.

BB

[Tractor]

If only i lived within an area of any casino at all, Stanleys reading is the nearest (1 hour+ drive away) the rest 2 hours plus..
Theres not much i can do apart from wishing DTD the best of luck.
I wish Rob & DTD the best of luck, get lucky just this one time.



GL and dont give up the dream.


Jason

[da_poker_monkey]

I have gladly deleted Gala poker from my computer (not that will even register anywhere) But I am a bit of a saddo when it comes to going out.  I only ever really go to Gala Notts and if I resigned I would be practically house bound and would never be able to play live poker again.  I am totally against what Gala and the others are doing to DTD but I don't think I am strong enough to give up my life just to take a moral stance at the moment.  I guess that is what these companies are relying on but I don't really see what I can do - sorry. 

[tikay]

This is going to be a very difficult Post to make. Not because I doubt what I am saying, but it's gonna be laible to misinterpretation. But the thread needs "balance", & it falls to me to try & give it.

First up, some facts.

It's the Law, or how it is being applied, thats the problem here.

The Directors of the big Casino Groups have an absolute duty to try & protect their position, using all legal means.

I have the same duty, on behalf of blonde, to protect our position.

Rob is a special friend to me.

DTD are blonde sponsors, for which we are immensely grateful.

We wish Rob & DTD every success in getting DTD up & running.

This thread is the busiest ever on blonde.

But.......I have to point out, that the views expressed as to DTD & the Casino Groups are those of our Members, & do not necessarily reflect our views.

We also have to remember that without the goodwill of the Casino Groups, Tournament Poker as we know it in the UK, would not exist.

Ditto our Live Updates.

Now some opinions......

I don't believe, even for a second, that a bunch of blondes tearing up Membership Cards will make an iota of difference in the grand scheme of things.

If we wanna resolve this awful dilemma, it's no good slugging it out head to head. There are other, better & more subtle means to satisfy both parties. You can win battles by refusing to budge an inch, or by negotiating such that both parties are able to see each others position, and then moving forward from there. In a lifetime in business, I never once resolved a dispute by colliding head-on - the aim was always to try & find a means by which we both face the same way.

DTD are not (remember, these are opinions) a threat to the Casinos. So it's a matter of persuading them thusly, & we won't do that by ripping up Membership Cards - the Casinos won't even notice.

We wish Rob, & DTD, nothing but the success they richly deserve - but there is room for both to co-exist, & persuading everyone of that is the task in hand, not going to war. In my opinion.

There IS a negotiated settlement available in my opinion, & I, for one, believe thats the way forward. We need to talk to each other, lobby persuasively, inch our way forward until we reach the goal - a thriving Tournament Poker Circuit & Scene in the UK, which includes both the Casino Groups & DTD.

It IS possible.
 
We need to keep balance. It's easy to become emotive here, & when you think what Rob has invested, that's understandable, but logic will win the day eventually, not emotion.

Our lobbying should be directed in that manner, intelligent & sensitive persuasion.

OK, bed awaits & I dread to think what reaction this Post is gonna get, but I have spoken as I feel, & represented, as fairly as I feel able, the positions of all Parties in this affair - DTD, the Casino Groups, & blonde.

Peace will out, eventually. I'm quite certain of that.

[Jon MW]

  Tikay

The gist of your post and the general point you are making concerning balance is, of course spot on.

I have no doubt that the major problem with this whole affair is that the current process which Rob had to follow for DtD was designed with the idea that it would only ever be corporations that would be following it, it is the law part of the equation which is causing more trouble than the casinos.

And after reading the Annual Reports for the casinos involved it should be emphasised that blonde cannot muster enough support to make a boycott of these casinos count.

But

the frustration for some of us 'little people' about not being able to do anything to help Rob is absolutely unbearable,  and this may be the only outlet we have for that frustration

Long Live DtD
Long Live blonde

and even Long Live the Casino Chains (as long as they start playing like nice boys and learn how to share  )

[GlasgowBandit]

Good post Tikay.

Its clear that emotions are running high on this thread and other threads related to Gala, Stanley and LCI. 

At the end of the day as you point out its not going harm the casinos by a sporadic number of people retruning memberships, negotiation and compromise is the only forward on this one.  My normal ethos would be all out attack on this, however I don't see that as an option a change of tact is whats required. 

I'm sure Rob has been in business long enough to see this through.  He's too long in the tooth to let the Casinos get this one over on him.  Lets wait on the announcement Rob said was imminent - I'm sure there will be something positive in that.

[lazaroonie]

This is going to be a very difficult Post to make. Not because I doubt what I am saying, but it's gonna be laible to misinterpretation. But the thread needs "balance", & it falls to me to try & give it.

First up, some facts.

It's the Law, or how it is being applied, thats the problem here.

The Directors of the big Casino Groups have an absolute duty to try & protect their position, using all legal means.

I have the same duty, on behalf of blonde, to protect our position.

Rob is a special friend to me.

DTD are blonde sponsors, for which we are immensely grateful.

We wish Rob & DTD every success in getting DTD up & running.

This thread is the busiest ever on blonde.

But.......I have to point out, that the views expressed as to DTD & the Casino Groups are those of our Members, & do not necessarily reflect our views.

We also have to remember that without the goodwill of the Casino Groups, Tournament Poker as we know it in the UK, would not exist.

Ditto our Live Updates.

Now some opinions......

I don't believe, even for a second, that a bunch of blondes tearing up Membership Cards will make an iota of difference in the grand scheme of things.

If we wanna resolve this awful dilemma, it's no good slugging it out head to head. There are other, better & more subtle means to satisfy both parties. You can win battles by refusing to budge an inch, or by negotiating such that both parties are able to see each others position, and then moving forward from there. In a lifetime in business, I never once resolved a dispute by colliding head-on - the aim was always to try & find a means by which we both face the same way.

DTD are not (remember, these are opinions) a threat to the Casinos. So it's a matter of persuading them thusly, & we won't do that by ripping up Membership Cards - the Casinos won't even notice.

We wish Rob, & DTD, nothing but the success they richly deserve - but there is room for both to co-exist, & persuading everyone of that is the task in hand, not going to war. In my opinion.

There IS a negotiated settlement available in my opinion, & I, for one, believe thats the way forward. We need to talk to each other, lobby persuasively, inch our way forward until we reach the goal - a thriving Tournament Poker Circuit & Scene in the UK, which includes both the Casino Groups & DTD.

It IS possible.
 
We need to keep balance. It's easy to become emotive here, & when you think what Rob has invested, that's understandable, but logic will win the day eventually, not emotion.

Our lobbying should be directed in that manner, intelligent & sensitive persuasion.

OK, bed awaits & I dread to think what reaction this Post is gonna get, but I have spoken as I feel, & represented, as fairly as I feel able, the positions of all Parties in this affair - DTD, the Casino Groups, & blonde.

Peace will out, eventually. I'm quite certain of that.

I agree, and said as much about a month back - That Gala/Stanley PLC board only has a responsibility to its shareholders. I can just about understand why they would try to get a business which could impact on their bottom line, not to open. What I find unedifying though is the apparant "collusion" between Gala and Stanley. The two biggest casino operators in the UK are apparantly ganging up on the little guy. Not only is it wrong, it is anti-competitive, and probably f;ying close to the wind of illegality.

Does anyone know if Gala (or others) raised any such objections to the new Stanley being built in Nottingham, or any other city for that matter ?

[ariston]

I know what you're saying Tikay but I am sure a negotiation would be impossible. When Grosvenor banned him nationwide he will have been in effect blackballed and you know what that means in business. Although its probably against the law the casinos tend to stick together (think of blackjack cheats in vegas etc were all the casinos collude together and they have their little black book). Although Rob has done nothing wrong apart from hiring staff (head hunting is perfectly acceptable in all walks of business life normally) who were leaving anyway I fear he has burnt his bridges on the negotiation front. I am sure Rob is also aware of this in his own heart. We can all scream at how unfair this is but business is business and all the letters in the world wont budge the casinos I don't think- the fact is the magistrates are the ones who have let them get away with this. I wonder if there is any legal avenues he can look into (although I am sure his barristers are already looking into this).

[4dam]

This may have been already mentioned. But could you open the club and charge an entrance fee at the door. So your not making any cash from poker (would you be breaking the law then).

Say you have a £100f/o it costs £15 to enter the premises, or any tourney less then this costs £10 to enter the premises

Best of luck Rob

4dam

[boldie]

Good post tikay and you are of course right, but like was said before by someone else..If sending out letters objecting to the way this process was handled by the big 3 is the only way the little guy (me) can make a small difference to the way this process might be handled differently in the future and if it doesn't hurt Rob and the DTD team (or Blonde for that matter) then I'm all for it.

I understand that casino's would object to a competitor opening, however in this case there seems to be a certain amount of collusion going on between the big three casino's against one poker only venue..that simply isn't right.
Rob has been assuring the casino's for ages now that he will only operate a poker only venue and, although I hope some sort of solution could be found through negotiations I sincerely doubt it.
The big three don't seem to be willing to listen (Although as Rob stated in his statement with regards to the hearing, LCI seems to want this over with as soon as possible and it was mainly Stanleys and Gala that wanted the hearing postponed for a ridiculous amount of time) to his arguements.

Like I said, I hope they do come to some sort of agreement but the casino's have what they wanted..the opening of DTD has been postponed for a long time and therefore now the only thing they might listen to is some form of protest from their customers.