"Dusk till Dawn" Poker Club In Nottingham Diary (by Rob Yong)

[RED-DOG]

The big guys get together and squeeze the little guy out. That's just wrong.


I'm sorry Rob, I truly am, but the really sad thing is that we live in a society where the underdog never gets a fair crack of the whip.


On behalf of all the little people, I wish you the very best of luck.

Tom.

 

[ariston]

I'd hate to  think the big companies have won rob but you are a businessman at the end of the day. I know you are not a quitter and nobody can fault you for your efforts in all this but surely there must come a time when you have to look at things from a bussinessmans point of view. Don't let the dream ruin your life.

Russ, its more of "nightmare" than a "dream", but I got myself into this, so I'm cool about the whole thing, ups and downs of taking risks, which are normally not shared in the public domain. Losing to you heads-up is a much worse...

only trying to be the voice of reason mate instead of everyone being behind you so much. We can all say how wrong it is the way you are being treated but you have a strong business background and know the way these things work. If you get to September then they get another 6 month adjournment, then another etc etc etc. Good luck with whatever you decide but maybe the best way forward would be to look at cutting some costs/overheads while you are being messed around so much. I hate to be the only man on the thread stating the obvious but as a poker player you have to sometimes look at the possiblity of folding- if you are beat it doesnt matter how much you have already stuck in there is no point going broke.

as for the heads up- you're still not ready  

[ripple11]

 Short term, the bar/restaurant idea, cant be that bad.....free poker training, maybe, hire out to conferences.etc.....a bit of lateral thinking.....along with LOTS of publicity of why this is happening.

[Jon MW]

... I hate to be the only man on the thread stating the obvious but as a poker player you have to sometimes look at the possiblity of folding- if you are beat it doesnt matter how much you have already stuck in there is no point going broke. ...

Obviously as much attachment as their is to the idea of Dusk til Dawn, nobody would expect Rob to risk going under through the effort of trying to bring it about.

But I don't think he's quite got a busted flush yet - (amongst the other options) - the Office of Fair Trading can't investigate any example of uncompetitive behaviour without a complaint being made, but if they think that it's something worth investigating they have considerable clout.



NB:

If anybody wonders why it isn't the Monopolies and Mergers Commission responsibility:-
(a) The Monopolies and Mergers Commission hasn't existed for 8 years (it was replaced by the Competition Commission)
(b) It only investigates claims brought by official bodies - in the absence of a specific trade body for an industry then competition issues are investigated by the OFT

[dik9]

OMG  Totally gutted for you and you team, do you think September is significant with the 2005 act being implemented that month, and the fact pubs will be allowed small stakes poker, and snooker clubs etc will be able to run poker as a business and make money off it?

[Div]

This whole situation is just disgusting.

You know you've got all our support, and I'm sure there will be more people eager to stick a few quid in DTD online to see if a bit of extra rake can help soften the blow until September.

[elblondie]

Quote from the Office of Fair Trading website: http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_resources/small_businesses/competing/

The law aims to promote healthy competition. It prohibits anti-competitive agreements between firms such as agreements to fix high prices or to carve up markets, and it makes it illegal for companies to abuse a dominant market position.

This filibustering by the Casinos with the aim of delaying long enough for DtD to run out of money seems intuitively to fit this exactly. It may not end up fitting the legal definition so it may come to nothing but it would seem to be an avenue worth exploring.

As far as I can see...this sums up exactly what is going on.
Personaly, I think we should all take an hour out to write to our local MPs stating the above and asking why Stanleys and Gala are being allowed to break this law in this way.

[Woodsey]

I will happily do it if someone can give me some guidance on what I should say that may actually make a difference

[Harmony26]

I will happily do it if someone can give me some guidance on what I should say that may actually make a difference

Likewise

[Delboy]

Your MP's Email addres can be found here.

http://www.parliament.uk/directories/hciolists/alms.cfm

I have used this before and they do reply!

[M3boy]

Lots of emails sent by me

MP's , Government Offices (relevant ones)

WatchDog would also be a good place to inform, they have a contact us page on their website

Lets all get on this one!

[da_poker_monkey]

For the first time in my 32 year history, I actually wrote to my MP last month to complain about the jobsworths who work for the council after an incident that took place in Nottingham recently.  Now I find myself writing another rant that will find itself in his mailbox early next week.  Can't help but feel that I will end up on some kind of list, with the old lady who owns 134 cats, or the old man who pees through the Police station letter box once a fortnight, sometime in the near future.  >:?

[robyong]

Thanks, when stuff like this happens sometimes making a lot of noise can make you feel better, but unfortunatley in the cold light of day, there is only one way that this hearing date could ever be changed, and that would be for at least 2 of the objectors to withdraw. We spoke to them all weeks before the hearing, giving undertakings that we would not operate casino games etc etc this was met on deaf ears. At the hearing these so called rivals were huddled up together, whispering, looking more like collegues that competitors.

After the hearing my solictor asked Gala if there was any chance of withdrawing their objection, they are clearly "co-ordinating" things, I was a bit shocked that he said their brief actually said "fxxx off", but maybe that was meant with a bit of humour, who knows? Under the circumstances, I did not find it funny lolSo, if you want to write to anyone, it would have to be the casinos, they seem in control now, but I'm afraid the chances of success seem very limited.

Personally, I would rather starve than appeal to Gala's good nature after the blatent collusion I saw today, however, I repeat, I chose this route, to take these risks, so I made my bed, and I must lie it in, and be as gracious in defeat as possible - its just business, and clearly those 2 years I had off galavanting around the world have left me a touch rusty! I appreciate all the good wishes, but noone should feel sorry for me, life has been very good to me, so I was probabaly due a setback, its not critical, but is painful. as Dik9 says, with the new gambling act coming into force in Sept 2007, the clear influence that the large corporates have, the possibility of further adjournments/problems, plus the financial consequences. Realistically, I cannot now rely on the Magistrates Court to rule in my favour in September after todays result.

Cheers again, Rob

so sik - i cant even come to the Blondebash due to Grovsvenor ban, damn damn Casinos

[Jon MW]

May I more overtly draw attention to the Office of Fair Trades guidance document on anti-competitive behaviour - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/ca98_mini_guides/oft447.pdf

- with the caveat that this guide itself states:

Competing fairly is an introduction to competition law only and should not be relied on as a substitute for the law itself. If you have any doubts about your position under the law, you should seek legal advice.

but specifically this guide states:

Chapter I of the Act and Article 81 of the EC Treaty prohibit agreements between businesses that prevent, restrict or distort competition or are intended to do so and which affect trade in the UK and/or EU.

and

Agreements likely to be prohibited include those which:
...
• carve up markets
...
Agreements can be formal or informal, written or verbal.
...
The prohibitions also cover decisions of associations of businesses as well as concerted practices (ie, cooperation which falls short of an agreement or decision).

Were there many witnesses to them talking to each other at the hearing?

This certainly wouldn't be a clearcut case but if the OFT thought it was worth investigating they have wide ranging and extensive powers, including:

In certain urgent circumstances (eg, where there is a real danger of serious permanent harm to a particular business), we may require a business to comply with a temporary order (eg, to stop certain conduct) while we complete our investigation.

[M3boy]

Rob, I know business is business and you obviously have to look at the costs involved, but please do not give up hope just yet!

To everyone :

Incidently the email address of Office of Fair Trading is 'enquiries@oft.gov.uk'

I have already emailed them, but a few hundred other people also emailing them may, just may work. Gotta be worth a shot?