Clarkson did it again but what's wrong with the Beeb?

[MANTIS01]

Interesting thing in the Times today.

Mr Cameron has said that "If I were to be prime minister I'd try to make devolution work and work closely with the devolved governments".

Mr Salmonds reply" The Scottish people will never forget what 18 years of Tory rule has brought them"

GG WP Salmond, you giant giant tool.

Salmond hasn't met Brown in the past year (though they have spoken over the phone) so he's not working well with Labour down south and is already throwing his toys out of the pram just in case Cameron gets elected. Very mature and it only re-enforces my belief that Scotland doesn't have 1st class politicians. Your prime minister lives 13 years in the past...what chance have you got as an independent nation?

Excellent.

Showing a bit of love to get what you want is obv a strat with too many meta levels for Salmond.

[Ironside]

for the pasrt 10 years we have the best scotish politiians running the UK and guess what they are no better than the best england had to offer

Really?  Who are these best politicians that you speak of?

Gordon Brown hahaha
Ali Darling lol
John Reid - murdering bassa!! 
Douglas Alexander - nh gg wp.  I do everything that Uncle Gordon tells me.

Who else would you consider to be in their?

The best Scottish MP's in the Labour Party got nowhere near powers of position.

you just answered my question

dont forget blair who is scottish by birth

[Rod Paradise]

Interesting thing in the Times today.

Mr Cameron has said that "If I were to be prime minister I'd try to make devolution work and work closely with the devolved governments".

Mr Salmonds reply" The Scottish people will never forget what 18 years of Tory rule has brought them"

GG WP Salmond, you giant giant tool.

Salmond hasn't met Brown in the past year (though they have spoken over the phone) so he's not working well with Labour down south and is already throwing his toys out of the pram just in case Cameron gets elected. Very mature and it only re-enforces my belief that Scotland doesn't have 1st class politicians. Your prime minister lives 13 years in the past...what chance have you got as an independent nation?

Excellent.

Showing a bit of love to get what you want is obv a strat with too many meta levels for Salmond.

First point if that's as the Times reports it then someone's at it. The rest of Cameron's quote was along the lines of he'd do anything in his power to prevent Scottish Independance. Puts Salmond's reply in a totally different light no?

And remembering Thatcher & the destruction of major industry in Scotland isn't living in the past - because it's affecting our present. Hence the smug "Scotland's got no industry, how would you survive" comments.

[Rod Paradise]

for the pasrt 10 years we have the best scotish politiians running the UK and guess what they are no better than the best england had to offer

Really?  Who are these best politicians that you speak of?

Gordon Brown hahaha
Ali Darling lol
John Reid - murdering bassa!! 
Douglas Alexander - nh gg wp.  I do everything that Uncle Gordon tells me.

Who else would you consider to be in their?

The best Scottish MP's in the Labour Party got nowhere near powers of position.

you just answered my question

dont forget blair who is scottish by birth

Sad line of debate Iron. You advocate staying under the rule of a country who couldn't put up anyone better? 

[MANTIS01]

The rest of Cameron's quote was along the lines of he'd do anything in his power to prevent Scottish Independance. Puts Salmond's reply in a totally different light no?

No, not really buddy. How does Salmond's comment/attitude about the Tories previous regime get today's Scotland closer to independence? It just doesn't. So why say it? A politician with class would pursuit a strat that gets him closer to his country's ultimate goal in spite of history and his own angst about it. Your defence is because Cameron said x Salmond can retaliate in kind and it's ok. That's like saying Prescott was ok to lamp the egg-thrower because the egg-thrower started it. Maybe he was, but he still looked like a bumbling idiot throwing his wild punches at people rather than a politician with dignity and purpose.

Yes, history affects the present but we're debating the future. The future is determined by the present so why dredge up the past at any opportunity just cos of what Cameron or anyone else says? A politician looking forward into the light rather than back to the dark would have class. The world is changing, as we have seen in America, so hanging onto the past is just restricting his own country's progress imo and clearly shows the guy is either bitter or stupid.

[Rod Paradise]

The rest of Cameron's quote was along the lines of he'd do anything in his power to prevent Scottish Independance. Puts Salmond's reply in a totally different light no?

No, not really buddy. How does Salmond's comment/attitude about the Tories previous regime get today's Scotland closer to independence? It just doesn't. So why say it? A politician with class would pursuit a strat that gets him closer to his country's ultimate goal in spite of history and his own angst about it. Your defence is because Cameron said x Salmond can retaliate in kind and it's ok. That's like saying Prescott was ok to lamp the egg-thrower because the egg-thrower started it. Maybe he was, but he still looked like a bumbling idiot throwing his wild punches at people rather than a politician with dignity and purpose.

Yes, history affects the present but we're debating the future. The future is determined by the present so why dredge up the past at any opportunity just cos of what Cameron or anyone else says? A politician looking forward into the light rather than back to the dark would have class. The world is changing, as we have seen in America, so hanging onto the past is just restricting his own country's progress imo and clearly shows the guy is either bitter or stupid.

Debating the future is OK when you can control your own future. Personally I find the desire from politicians to whitewash what's been done wrong in the past to be totally lacking in class, but hey you're allowed your own view as am I.

My point still stands, the Times tried to make Salmond out to be a churlish Scots rebel snapping at the hand of friendship using misleading quotes & some have bought it. Instead he was rightly warning that the party that so abused Scotland (to the point of breaking the law of the Union), hasn't changed its' spots, and that there's plenty with a long enough memory not to blythely vote them in because of a few weasel words.

[MANTIS01]

I dunno buddy. Nelson Mandela put up with a lot of shit didn't he? I would suggest that his country's attitude to black people trumped the English attitude to Scots, and he also did a long stretch inside for pratically nothing. When he came out he didn't snipe or incite hatred he just carried himself with dignity and class. And South Africa moved forward.

[Ironside]

for the pasrt 10 years we have the best scotish politiians running the UK and guess what they are no better than the best england had to offer

Really?  Who are these best politicians that you speak of?

Gordon Brown hahaha
Ali Darling lol
John Reid - murdering bassa!! 
Douglas Alexander - nh gg wp.  I do everything that Uncle Gordon tells me.

Who else would you consider to be in their?

The best Scottish MP's in the Labour Party got nowhere near powers of position.

you just answered my question

dont forget blair who is scottish by birth

Sad line of debate Iron. You advocate staying under the rule of a country who couldn't put up anyone better? 

no i am advocating that if this is the best scotland can produce then we are in a right hole look what they have done to the UK


but my main arguement is that since the 70s scotland was handing over its cast revenues to the south of england which has profited at scotlands expense, now scotland has nothing england is having to support us using the barnet formula scotland hasnt had it so good compared to england, lets get scotland moving again BEFORE we cut the ties and go it alone. the time for independace is not now it was 30 years ago and sometime in the future but this is the wrong time.

[Rod Paradise]

I dunno buddy. Nelson Mandela put up with a lot of shit didn't he? I would suggest that his country's attitude to black people trumped the English attitude to Scots, and he also did a long stretch inside for pratically nothing. When he came out he didn't snipe or incite hatred he just carried himself with dignity and class. And South Africa moved forward.

Mandela's statement on his release.....

Our resort to the armed struggle in 1960 with the formation of the military wing of the ANC (Umkhonto we Sizwe) was a purely defensive action against the violence of apartheid. The factors which necessitated the armed struggle still exist today. We have no option but to continue. We express the hope that a climate conducive to a negotiated settlement would be created soon, so that there may no longer be the need for the armed struggle.

Doesn't come across as let's forget what has happened and go skipping through the tulips hand in hand to me. He did a while later call for an end to the armed struggle just in time for the free elections. His work in enabling the Truth and Reconcilliation Commission is highly commendable of course, a setup I think should be brought to Northern Ireland once the ceasefire is fully implemented IMHO.

Still doesn't seem like a 'lets all forget the past' argument to me.

[Rod Paradise]

for the pasrt 10 years we have the best scotish politiians running the UK and guess what they are no better than the best england had to offer

Really?  Who are these best politicians that you speak of?

Gordon Brown hahaha
Ali Darling lol
John Reid - murdering bassa!! 
Douglas Alexander - nh gg wp.  I do everything that Uncle Gordon tells me.

Who else would you consider to be in their?

The best Scottish MP's in the Labour Party got nowhere near powers of position.

you just answered my question

dont forget blair who is scottish by birth

Sad line of debate Iron. You advocate staying under the rule of a country who couldn't put up anyone better? 

no i am advocating that if this is the best scotland can produce then we are in a right hole look what they have done to the UK


but my main arguement is that since the 70s scotland was handing over its cast revenues to the south of england which has profited at scotlands expense, now scotland has nothing england is having to support us using the barnet formula scotland hasnt had it so good compared to england, lets get scotland moving again BEFORE we cut the ties and go it alone. the time for independace is not now it was 30 years ago and sometime in the future but this is the wrong time.

How will Scotland get moving under a British Government then? And by the way the governemnt that LIED about Scotland's ability to be self-sifficient in the 70's is the same party casting doubt on everything now. Fool me once, fool on me???

[gatso]

blonde referendum on whether the scots should have their own forum imo

[Ironside]

the mistake they are making now is no-one is leading a massive pro union campaign that there was in the 70s, because the major partys in the UK know they would be better off without scotland ATM, when scotland is ready to go it alone you watch as the tories and labour kick off with big adverts with how scotland is better off in the union, and the people will have forgot the last 30 years and fall for it again

[Colchester Kev]

I would love to have the power to grant Scotland independence ...

blondes could quite easily form the Scottish government ...

Fergus for Chancellor OBV.
Ironside for Education minister
Ecosse for Foreign Secretary



Im sure you guys can come up with some others

[Ironside]

I would love to have the power to grant Scotland independence ...

blondes could quite easily form the Scottish government ...

Ironside for Education minister

i am highly educated tyvm i just cant type or spealt

[MANTIS01]

We express the hope that a climate conducive to a negotiated settlement would be created soon

That would have been a much classier response to Cameron's comments imo.