Player dependent call?

[Pyso]

Ok, here goes. He liked his cards pre-flop and raised confidently. I was watching him watching me as the flop came down. He then looked at the flop and looked away quickly, usually a sign of strength. He checked, which I was expecting anyway. I bet because I'm not letting AK get there on the turn and I also need some feedback as to the strength of his hand. I admit I inflated the pot size unnecessarily pre-flop and maybe my c-bet was a little large but he took very little time to check-raise me, in fact he looked so keen he could hardly stop himself.

As I was taking my time calling he then said, "I think you have AK" which I repeated with incredulity because I saw it for what it was, an attempt to get me to call as he could sense I might actually be passing.

I made the maths based call but I didn't feel good about it and my inner gut was right when he flipped over QQ very quickly. He pretended to sound surprised that I had KK but I'm sure he knew all along what I had, given the flop and my bet into him.

Also my view of his view of me was that he would see me as relatively tight preflop because in the time he had been sat down it was my first raise and also I was obviously respecting position. So I think he had me tagged on better than a mid pair or AK.

[Longy]

Why would you cbet the flop if Simon only gets it in with better than kk? Protecting against 2/3 outer really isn't a good enough reason imo.

I think you played it fine apart from a bit less pre.

[gatso]

ok, I'm failing to see that you're making good reads and acting on them here

first you read him for being strong on the flop so you bet to protect against AK. well, AK has completely missed this flop so you're ignoring your read, not to mention betting for exactly the wrong reason

secondly, you're sure that he's got AA or QQ here but say that you made the maths based call. that's just wrong. if you're sure that he has one of those 2 hands then the maths says fold. if you think that you made a correct maths based call then you have to be putting him on a much wider range

the whole thought process seems a bit mixed up tbh

btw, mbsfn=must be so fucking nice

[Royal Flush]

All i saw was 50p-£1 player makes it 13x in EP so we can assume they probably aren't that good (i would put them str8 into the clown box, i don't care who it is other than its a nit so we can 3bet good hands) we look down at a good hand and our 3b size is fine as he is never folding to it with a 'lol' 13x open, he looks back at QQ and goes "oooh i can beat AK lets see if i get a safe flop so i can stack off" instead he hits a set and you then proceed to do a full pot bet.....all that happened here was the guy got lucky, i am slightly worried that he doesn't just jam the flop into us as he might do with JJ etc but meh he should never have AA as we clearly are not 3betting to 45BB to pass but then he opens to 13BB so who knows!

Basically this pot has already been arranged pre, you got someone to stick in 1/3 of their stack with a smaller pair, sure 1/8 times they out flop you, the rest of the time they shove the 872 flop thinking you have AK.

[Pyso]

gatso, I agree totally, I screwed up. I hold my hands up. I made the read and then failed to act on it. (It's like reading a putt on a green then second guessing yourself only to find your original assertion was correct. Done that many times also! Lol).

I would however in response say that I was betting on the flop with what I thought may be the best hand until proven otherwise and to stop him improving on the turn if he had AK, not a case of me betting to protect against AK on the flop as you suggested.

Anyway, I am very aware that my thinking was jumbled and that I got myself in a twist. I like to post as a form of self abuse (bad pyso, bad pyso!) and for the helpful feedback I get.

I also wanted to point out that maths based calls have their limitations sometimes as this hand may or may not show.

[daviebhoy]

I also wanted to point out that maths based calls have their limitations sometimes as this hand may or may not show.

You are getting what 5-1 here ? If you fold here you don't have to be wrong very often for it to be unprofitable. Seems like you just got unlucky and are beating yourself up for no reason. If you are going to try and get away from this hand then you probably want to start keeping the pot smaller but doing so you will win less in the long run. The c-bet seems more of an issue if you think he only calls with AA or QQ. I don't see how you can ever fold to the check-raise.

[LeedsRhodesy]

All i saw was 50p-£1 player makes it 13x in EP so we can assume they probably aren't that good (i would put them str8 into the clown box,

i don't care who it is other than its a nit so we can 3bet good hands) we look down at a good hand and our 3b size is fine as he is never folding to it with a 'lol' 13x open, he looks back at QQ and goes "oooh i can beat AK lets see if i get a safe flop so i can stack off" instead he hits a set and you then proceed to do a full pot bet.....all that happened here was the guy got lucky, i am slightly worried that he doesn't just jam the flop into us as he might do with JJ etc but meh he should never have AA as we clearly are not 3betting to 45BB to pass but then he opens to 13BB so who knows!

Basically this pot has already been arranged pre, you got someone to stick in 1/3 of their stack with a smaller pair, sure 1/8 times they out flop you, the rest of the time they shove the 872 flop thinking you have AK.

that made me lol hard

mate you have to call for £48 you have an over pair and simon could quite easy have AQ here but i love him to come online and tell us all he had jack shit

[MKKfish]

Holy mother of gfgsdj;l#.. Q,7,4...

Wht flop would you have liked?

Call with a fist pump, then "oh noes he's got a set", followed by K turn, (re fist-pump), and wait for the comedy Q river.

[Pyso]

Holy mother of gfgsdj;l#.. Q,7,4...

Wht flop would you have liked?

Call with a fist pump, then "oh noes he's got a set", followed by K turn, (re fist-pump), and wait for the comedy Q river.

Lol, it so nearly happened that way ..

The flop I wanted was 10,7,4 then the money was coming my way as Simon actually said would have been the case. But it didn't. Hey ho.

To be honest I was betting any flop, even with an ace on it. Perhaps a little less would have been better but I was always going to bet.

[Pyso]

All i saw was 50p-£1 player makes it 13x in EP so we can assume they probably aren't that good (i would put them str8 into the clown box,

i don't care who it is other than its a nit so we can 3bet good hands) we look down at a good hand and our 3b size is fine as he is never folding to it with a 'lol' 13x open, he looks back at QQ and goes "oooh i can beat AK lets see if i get a safe flop so i can stack off" instead he hits a set and you then proceed to do a full pot bet.....all that happened here was the guy got lucky, i am slightly worried that he doesn't just jam the flop into us as he might do with JJ etc but meh he should never have AA as we clearly are not 3betting to 45BB to pass but then he opens to 13BB so who knows!

Basically this pot has already been arranged pre, you got someone to stick in 1/3 of their stack with a smaller pair, sure 1/8 times they out flop you, the rest of the time they shove the 872 flop thinking you have AK.

that made me lol hard

mate you have to call for £48 you have an over pair and simon could quite easy have AQ here but i love him to come online and tell us all he had jack shit

My reasoning was that precisely because it was Simon Trumper meant that AQ was far less likely than if it was your standard £0.50/£1 fish. That may be flawed reasoning but that was my feeling at the time.

I would have tapped the table had I passed and he shown air, but unfortunately I tapped the table when I called and he showed the set that I knew he had. Sigh.

[EvilPie]

How did this not all go in pre following the 13x raise and the £45 reraise?

If oppo puts you squarely on AK why does he flat? Is he hoping to see all under cards to jam and win no more money off you? I doubt it.

A £32 call hoping to see no over's seems a bit expensive to me and Simon won't expect to be paid by AK that doesn't hit the nit.

If he puts you on a bigger pair and is set mining then he's got the wrong price. He isn't stupid so this isn't the case.

The only explanation is that he thinks his QQ is ahead pre and that you have 10 10 or JJ. After all why would anyone raise so much with KK or AA? He was hoping for all under cards so that he could stack you off imo.

As it happens he got it wrong but got lucky when he hit his set.

No escape this shallow especially following the 13x raise no matter who the player is. UL

[Pyso]

How did this not all go in pre following the 13x raise and the £45 reraise?

If oppo puts you squarely on AK why does he flat? Is he hoping to see all under cards to jam and win no more money off you? I doubt it.

A £32 call hoping to see no over's seems a bit expensive to me and Simon won't expect to be paid by AK that doesn't hit the nit.

If he puts you on a bigger pair and is set mining then he's got the wrong price. He isn't stupid so this isn't the case.

The only explanation is that he thinks his QQ is ahead pre and that you have 10 10 or JJ. After all why would anyone raise so much with KK or AA? He was hoping for all under cards so that he could stack you off imo.

As it happens he got it wrong but got lucky when he hit his set.

No escape this shallow especially following the 13x raise no matter who the player is. UL

Thanks for the extra perspective, I hadn't thought about it this way, but it does make some sense. I would be interested to know what Simon thought I had preflop when I 3-bet so big.

[LeedsRhodesy]

so simon showed QQ?

[StuartHopkin]

so simon showed QQ?

lol that is what he said in the original post!

[GreekStein]

Useful info to know if Aces puts up any more staking requests. Opens 13x. Noted. hmm.

I played with him once in a cash game and he was a little looser than he would be in a tournament so I wouldnt rule out AQ or KQ here either cos he's not passing to your rr once he's made that donk open to 13x and once u bet half his stack his decision is the same with KQ as it is with a set.

Would be interesting if someone pm'd him so he could explain his thoughts on the hand.

One more q - who trains the dealers at DTD? (joke btw before I get refused entry on my next visit!)