Truth of the Lie - Madeleine McCann Banned Book

[StuartHopkin]

Cadaver.  Good word.

Sniffer dogs are awesome aren't they?

These are probably basic facts, but I'm not clued up on this.

Was there any sign of forced entry?

How long do the McCann's say they left her alone for?

Well Im only going on the book so if anyone has info from elsewhere feel free to contribute.

There was no sign of forced entry, the front door was still locked. The rear patio doors were never locked and were used to access the apartment. There was a window open when they discovered she was missing. This window could only have been opened from the inside.

They say someone checked every 15 minutes, but then the whole thing appears sketchy with someone saying 30 mins, others that for the first time that evening it may have been an hour. One of the guys only checked by listening at the window, he didnt actually look inside. The police also apparently found remains of lists that had two varying timescales written on them showing who checked at what times that evening.

[EvilPie]

Kate heard of a former South African army colonel named Krugal, who had perfected a machine enabling him to detect the presence of a body.
This was apparently achieved by placing a a hair of the person in the machine, it could then detect and identical particles emitted by a decomposing body.

Apparently the McCanns requested he came to Portugal officially and this was granted.

He did his search and defined a corridor about 300m wide between the cliffs and the roman bath, stating "Madeline's body is in this area"
He then left.

The whole thing just sounds bizarre to me, could this ever be possible? Does anyone know anything about this guy and his machine? Apparently there has been a TV documentary?

Sounds like something off CSI Miami to me.

I believe that the dogs can find bodies and sense cadavers but this machine sounds a bit ridiculous.

I've got visions of that little woman off poltergeist walking down this 300m corridor saying "come in to the light Madeleine" and then stating "Madeleine's body is here".

[LeedsRhodesy]

Ill have a go.

Mark Harrison a UK forensic expert who was working on the case suggested the use of two dogs.
One EVRD (Enhanced Victim Recovery Dog), this dog is capable of detecting human cadaver odour
One CSI (Crime Scene Investigation) dog, capable of of detecting himan blood.
13th July 2007 the two dogs, Eddie (EVRD) and Keela (CSI) arrive in Portugal.

The way they use the dogs is to send Eddie in first to detect if there has been the presence of a cadaver.
If Eddie believes a cadaver was present Keela goes in to find the slightest trace of blood.

Apparently the dogs, both Springer Spaniels have been used in many of the high profile cases here in Britain, with great success.

Allegedly Eddie let out a howl in both the parents bedroom, and by the sofa that had been pushed back against the window.
Keela then went in and found traces of blood between the window and sofa.
When searching the house they were staying in, Eddie came across the soft toy and again barked to indicate that it had the odour of being in contact with a cadaver.
These dogs also confirmed a cadaver had been present in the car helped find blood on the key and boot.

Obviously there is a lot more talk about the dogs and their behaviour, but I found it very interesting that these dogs appear to be relied upon here in the UK but the evidence they provided over there didnt count for much.

stu just found this worth a look

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id167.html

[gatso]

Kate heard of a former South African army colonel named Krugal, who had perfected a machine enabling him to detect the presence of a body.
This was apparently achieved by placing a a hair of the person in the machine, it could then detect and identical particles emitted by a decomposing body.

Apparently the McCanns requested he came to Portugal officially and this was granted.

He did his search and defined a corridor about 300m wide between the cliffs and the roman bath, stating "Madeline's body is in this area"
He then left.

The whole thing just sounds bizarre to me, could this ever be possible? Does anyone know anything about this guy and his machine? Apparently there has been a TV documentary?

lol, this sounds like the dude who's been selling these things all over the world claiming they detect whatever it is that the people he goes to see may want to detect. abs no evidence that they work, plenty that they don't, yet they're being used as mine detectors in several warzones costing countless lives and as explosives detectors in place of dogs at several 3rd world airports. tried to sell to the british military but they told him to do one yet we don't stop the guy trading from the uk due to some ridic loophole

the dog evidence, if true, sounds fairly convincing as specialist sniffer dogs are pretty damn good. not much can be done if their actions can't be accpepted as proof in portugal though. I guess it's comparable to compelling evidence in the uk/usa being thrown out as it was obtained without a warrant

[StuartHopkin]

Ill have a go.

Mark Harrison a UK forensic expert who was working on the case suggested the use of two dogs.
One EVRD (Enhanced Victim Recovery Dog), this dog is capable of detecting human cadaver odour
One CSI (Crime Scene Investigation) dog, capable of of detecting himan blood.
13th July 2007 the two dogs, Eddie (EVRD) and Keela (CSI) arrive in Portugal.

The way they use the dogs is to send Eddie in first to detect if there has been the presence of a cadaver.
If Eddie believes a cadaver was present Keela goes in to find the slightest trace of blood.

Apparently the dogs, both Springer Spaniels have been used in many of the high profile cases here in Britain, with great success.

Allegedly Eddie let out a howl in both the parents bedroom, and by the sofa that had been pushed back against the window.
Keela then went in and found traces of blood between the window and sofa.
When searching the house they were staying in, Eddie came across the soft toy and again barked to indicate that it had the odour of being in contact with a cadaver.
These dogs also confirmed a cadaver had been present in the car helped find blood on the key and boot.

Obviously there is a lot more talk about the dogs and their behaviour, but I found it very interesting that these dogs appear to be relied upon here in the UK but the evidence they provided over there didnt count for much.

stu just found this worth a look

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id167.html

Just watched the first 5 mins of that video.
Obv lots of info on that site I will have a look through.
But I think you may have just made the thread worthwhile! Thanks.

[LeedsRhodesy]

I'm open minded just cos they are both doctors and look loving does not mean they have it in them to lie, The ones with the hire cars are good to watch too


would anyone of thought Lousie woodward was a killer  ( the 19 year old au pair who killed matthew eappen) by shaking him when he started to cry?? in the USA in 1997

[TightEnd]

 The ones with the hire cars are good to watch too

explain please. In modern criminology does one need to frequent Hertz offices at airport terminals to be one step ahead of the pack?

[pokefast]

 The ones with the hire cars are good to watch too

explain please. In modern criminology does one need to frequent Hertz offices at airport terminals to be one step ahead of the pack?

Enterprise are the real criminals!

[ripple11]

The trouble with the dogs is that they are sent in 3 months afterwards.....and by implicating the hire car, rented 3 weeks after the incident,makes for a good story,but seriously........

[LeedsRhodesy]

 The ones with the hire cars are good to watch too

explain please. In modern criminology does one need to frequent Hertz offices at airport terminals to be one step ahead of the pack?

www.mccannfiles.com/id167.html      4th one down

[LeedsRhodesy]

The trouble with the dogs is that they are sent in 3 months afterwards.....and by implicating the hire car, rented 3 weeks after the incident,makes for a good story,but seriously........

Garry mcCann wrote in his blog that 3 weeks after the event  his fridge broke in his rented apartment so he took the fridge down to the local dump to get rid of it!!!  was the body of madeleine move on that day???  and how has blood got on the keys and hair and blood in the boot of the car???

Plus How many people on here have rented an apartment on holiday?

I think all of us have

so if you were on holiday and your fridge broke would you

1) ring the person who ownes the place and tell them the fridge is broke  and say you would like it replaced
2)  take it in your own hands to remove the fridge and go and dump it in a tip

let me guess 100% would pick number 1

[StuartHopkin]

 The ones with the hire cars are good to watch too

explain please. In modern criminology does one need to frequent Hertz offices at airport terminals to be one step ahead of the pack?

The dogs sniff a number of vehciles, the McCanns hire car, Mr Murats and his friends I believe, there is nothing until they reach the McCann car, one dog indicates the vehicle has contained a cadaver, the other finds blood in the boot and on the key.

[TightEnd]

it was more the implication that you ahve to watch people who rent hire cars!


I have been reading the stuff anyway, some of it seems unequivocal/presented convincingly.

If that's the case, why were they never charged? There must be flaws in the articles being linked to/evidence being pointed to.

[roscopiko]

it was more the implication that you ahve to watch people who rent hire cars!


I have been reading the stuff anyway, some of it seems unequivocal/presented convincingly.

If that's the case, why were they never charged? There must be flaws in the articles being linked to/evidence being pointed to.

Anyone know how long has the book been available to read on the net?

[kinboshi]

Kate heard of a former South African army colonel named Krugal, who had perfected a machine enabling him to detect the presence of a body.
This was apparently achieved by placing a a hair of the person in the machine, it could then detect and identical particles emitted by a decomposing body.

Apparently the McCanns requested he came to Portugal officially and this was granted.

He did his search and defined a corridor about 300m wide between the cliffs and the roman bath, stating "Madeline's body is in this area"
He then left.

The whole thing just sounds bizarre to me, could this ever be possible? Does anyone know anything about this guy and his machine? Apparently there has been a TV documentary?

lol, this sounds like the dude who's been selling these things all over the world claiming they detect whatever it is that the people he goes to see may want to detect. abs no evidence that they work, plenty that they don't, yet they're being used as mine detectors in several warzones costing countless lives and as explosives detectors in place of dogs at several 3rd world airports. tried to sell to the british military but they told him to do one yet we don't stop the guy trading from the uk due to some ridic loophole

He's made an absolute packet from it too. 

http://skepfeeds.wordpress.com/2010/01/22/head-of-atsc-bomb-detector-company-arrested-on-suspicion-of-fraud/

the dog evidence, if true, sounds fairly convincing as specialist sniffer dogs are pretty damn good. not much can be done if their actions can't be accpepted as proof in portugal though. I guess it's comparable to compelling evidence in the uk/usa being thrown out as it was obtained without a warrant

Would like to see the studies showing the accuracy of these sniffer dogs when they're brought in to do what it is claimed they can do in terms of locating spots where dead bodies were located in the past.