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Author Topic: Discussions about: Staking - Betfair Football Trading  (Read 317840 times)
Rozza1
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« Reply #2145 on: June 23, 2010, 08:38:40 AM »

Have the police been informed?

"Officer, I've been the victim of theft, fraud and deception, somebody has stolen my money"

"Deary me sir, how did that happen"

"Well there's this group of us, a few dozen and we all like a bit of a gamble and some of us knew this bloke who also liked a gamble but worse than us, he was a mad gambler and chucked fifty pound notes around, buying everyone drinks and lapdances but he did also seem to be a bit skint at times like he couldn't handle his money, wanted staking for $5 games after winning £30k and often borrowed money off others in the group making excuses like nigerians had emptied his bank account.  He said he was a top pro punter but he wore the same shirt for two years, drove a cheap old fiesta, had an IVA for not being able to pay his credit cards and also signed on the dole for his giro and rent money.  Anyway, we all got together and gave him about £80k as he said he would gamble it for us and turn it into £160k but do you know what, he didn't!  We didn't sign anything like specific terms or anything, we just thought he could double our money gambling because he said so, but we reckon he lost some and spent some and might even still have some - can you arrest him please officer?"

"No sir, have you considered calling GamCare or the samaritans for advice, you might even want to club together some more and take him to a civil law court as this is clearly a civil matter between friends and people who don't really know each other who have now fell out, but that will cost you many thousands in solictors fees and you will lose annonymity doing that and you will be laughed at and pointed at in the civil law court by anyone watching as you're gradually picked to pieces by someone pointing out all the facts you knew collectively but chose to ignore behind the prospect of making some quick money by gambling."

"Bugger"

Possibly the least constructive thing I've read in 120+ pages.
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Sweat
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« Reply #2146 on: June 23, 2010, 08:41:32 AM »

Have the police been informed?

"Officer, I've been the victim of theft, fraud and deception, somebody has stolen my money"

"Deary me sir, how did that happen"

"Well there's this group of us, a few dozen and we all like a bit of a gamble and some of us knew this bloke who also liked a gamble but worse than us, he was a mad gambler and chucked fifty pound notes around, buying everyone drinks and lapdances but he did also seem to be a bit skint at times like he couldn't handle his money, wanted staking for $5 games after winning £30k and often borrowed money off others in the group making excuses like nigerians had emptied his bank account.  He said he was a top pro punter but he wore the same shirt for two years, drove a cheap old fiesta, had an IVA for not being able to pay his credit cards and also signed on the dole for his giro and rent money.  Anyway, we all got together and gave him about £80k as he said he would gamble it for us and turn it into £160k but do you know what, he didn't!  We didn't sign anything like specific terms or anything, we just thought he could double our money gambling because he said so, but we reckon he lost some and spent some and might even still have some - can you arrest him please officer?"

"No sir, have you considered calling GamCare or the samaritans for advice, you might even want to club together some more and take him to a civil law court as this is clearly a civil matter between friends and people who don't really know each other who have now fell out, but that will cost you many thousands in solictors fees and you will lose annonymity doing that and you will be laughed at and pointed at in the civil law court by anyone watching as you're gradually picked to pieces by someone pointing out all the facts you knew collectively but chose to ignore behind the prospect of making some quick money by gambling."

"Bugger"

If money was obtained via deception, as appears to be the situation, there is a case to answer.

If he is 'losing' the money to himself, portraying the money has gone whilst it is sitting in another account of his, as appears to be the situation, there is a case to answer.

If he has been committing benefit fraud, as appears to be the situation, there is a case to answer.

Whether or not anything tangible comes of each case, I do not know. But if you are suggesting his investors should learn their lesson and move on while Blatch is not called to account on each case, I would like to know if you are actually Blatch under yet another login.
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Palawan
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« Reply #2147 on: June 23, 2010, 09:26:35 AM »

On your first two points, which are disputable given the lack of any written agreements and the inescapable fact that friends or people who knew somebody by reputation only, informally gave a fellow gambler money to gamble in the hope of making a profit, you might just be able to dispute this in a civil law court with no guarantee of success.  It is not a criminal offence though.

Your point with regard to benefit fraud is probably valid, they'd certainly be interested if it is means tested benefits as cash/savings would preclude him from that which is a criminal offence and they still might be interested even if it is just contributory benefits he's receiving as to receive even that which isn't means tested, he has to be actively seeking employment, I can guarantee you pointing them at this thread will give a bored civil servant hours of fun and perhaps him some discomfort, as would pointing his IVA administrator at this thread.

You might want to look at other threads about this, such as on the betfair poker forum.  At some stage the group of wronged people here will eventually realise they have been silly, it isn't a criminal offence and they will either decide to move on or club together again to have their day in a civil court, that will at least cause him more discomfort if nothing else.  Until then, having a group e-hug isn't an offence either, nor is having a pop at anyone who isn't part of the gang who might pop by to post an opinion not clouded by emotions.
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sovietsong
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« Reply #2148 on: June 23, 2010, 09:33:18 AM »

Such well thought out posts palwan
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« Reply #2149 on: June 23, 2010, 09:34:22 AM »

On your first two points, which are disputable given the lack of any written agreements and the inescapable fact that friends or people who knew somebody by reputation only, informally gave a fellow gambler money to gamble in the hope of making a profit, you might just be able to dispute this in a civil law court with no guarantee of success.  It is not a criminal offence though.

Your point with regard to benefit fraud is probably valid, they'd certainly be interested if it is means tested benefits as cash/savings would preclude him from that which is a criminal offence and they still might be interested even if it is just contributory benefits he's receiving as to receive even that which isn't means tested, he has to be actively seeking employment, I can guarantee you pointing them at this thread will give a bored civil servant hours of fun and perhaps him some discomfort, as would pointing his IVA administrator at this thread.

You might want to look at other threads about this, such as on the betfair poker forum.  At some stage the group of wronged people here will eventually realise they have been silly, it isn't a criminal offence and they will either decide to move on or club together again to have their day in a civil court, that will at least cause him more discomfort if nothing else.  Until then, having a group e-hug isn't an offence either, nor is having a pop at anyone who isn't part of the gang who might pop by to post an opinion not clouded by emotions.

If it were me I would follow these courses of action. I would give it to social services, I would give it to the IVA company and I would try to move on a little poorer and a little wiser knowing if I ever have spare cash again I will[/u] choose what I invest it on.
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« Reply #2150 on: June 23, 2010, 09:36:17 AM »

Blatchly exposed as an alleged fraudster.

I think you can drop the "alleged", he's unlikely to sue for libel.

It's a bit like saying that sofa----king allegedly doesn't know the abbreviation for 'etcetera'.
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Palawan
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« Reply #2151 on: June 23, 2010, 09:54:00 AM »

On your first two points, which are disputable given the lack of any written agreements and the inescapable fact that friends or people who knew somebody by reputation only, informally gave a fellow gambler money to gamble in the hope of making a profit, you might just be able to dispute this in a civil law court with no guarantee of success.  It is not a criminal offence though.

Your point with regard to benefit fraud is probably valid, they'd certainly be interested if it is means tested benefits as cash/savings would preclude him from that which is a criminal offence and they still might be interested even if it is just contributory benefits he's receiving as to receive even that which isn't means tested, he has to be actively seeking employment, I can guarantee you pointing them at this thread will give a bored civil servant hours of fun and perhaps him some discomfort, as would pointing his IVA administrator at this thread.

You might want to look at other threads about this, such as on the betfair poker forum.  At some stage the group of wronged people here will eventually realise they have been silly, it isn't a criminal offence and they will either decide to move on or club together again to have their day in a civil court, that will at least cause him more discomfort if nothing else.  Until then, having a group e-hug isn't an offence either, nor is having a pop at anyone who isn't part of the gang who might pop by to post an opinion not clouded by emotions.

If it were me I would follow these courses of action. I would give it to social services, I would give it to the IVA company and I would try to move on a little poorer and a little wiser knowing if I ever have spare cash again I will[/u] choose what I invest it on.

I would too as I would want to make life as uncomfortable as possible for him in the absence of criminal action or the likelihood of getting any money back, a visit to the civil law courts might be a nugatory financial exercise but it would bother him and cost him.
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jaxxstorm
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« Reply #2152 on: June 23, 2010, 09:54:09 AM »

I'm a bit confused as to why people are entering this thread and making judgement based on whether there is a criminal case to answer.

Surely the only person that can answer that question is the investigating officer, any conjecture and "expert opinion" seems to be completely pointless?

Lets just wait until we hear what the police have to say about the matter (if anything) instead of speculating and arguing.
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d.c.
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« Reply #2153 on: June 23, 2010, 10:27:30 AM »

I'm a bit confused as to why people are entering this thread and making judgement based on whether there is a criminal case to answer.

Surely the only person that can answer that question is the investigating officer, any conjecture and "expert opinion" seems to be completely pointless?

Lets just wait until we hear what the police have to say about the matter (if anything) instead of speculating and arguing.

have the police been called?
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Sweat
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« Reply #2154 on: June 23, 2010, 10:47:48 AM »

I'm a bit confused as to why people are entering this thread and making judgement based on whether there is a criminal case to answer.

Surely the only person that can answer that question is the investigating officer, any conjecture and "expert opinion" seems to be completely pointless?

Lets just wait until we hear what the police have to say about the matter (if anything) instead of speculating and arguing.

I've already run this past a mate who is a lawyer and he have said it is 100% worth following up on through the proper channels.

Check it out, you will find there is at the very least an investigation to be had.

I just hope those affected have the bit between their teeth to do so.
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Sweat
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« Reply #2155 on: June 23, 2010, 10:48:18 AM »

I'm a bit confused as to why people are entering this thread and making judgement based on whether there is a criminal case to answer.

Surely the only person that can answer that question is the investigating officer, any conjecture and "expert opinion" seems to be completely pointless?

Lets just wait until we hear what the police have to say about the matter (if anything) instead of speculating and arguing.

have the police been called?

Sounds worth a shout.
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LeedsRhodesy
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« Reply #2156 on: June 23, 2010, 10:49:37 AM »

I'm a bit confused as to why people are entering this thread and making judgement based on whether there is a criminal case to answer.

Surely the only person that can answer that question is the investigating officer, any conjecture and "expert opinion" seems to be completely pointless?

Lets just wait until we hear what the police have to say about the matter (if anything) instead of speculating and arguing.

have the police been called?






I told the police...............................................well I told my friend about this and he is a police man does that count?
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Palawan
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« Reply #2157 on: June 23, 2010, 10:54:17 AM »

Have the police been informed?

"Officer, I've been the victim of theft, fraud and deception, somebody has stolen my money"

"Deary me sir, how did that happen"

"Well there's this group of us, a few dozen and we all like a bit of a gamble and some of us knew this bloke who also liked a gamble but worse than us, he was a mad gambler and chucked fifty pound notes around, buying everyone drinks and lapdances but he did also seem to be a bit skint at times like he couldn't handle his money, wanted staking for $5 games after winning £30k and often borrowed money off others in the group making excuses like nigerians had emptied his bank account.  He said he was a top pro punter but he wore the same shirt for two years, drove a cheap old fiesta, had an IVA for not being able to pay his credit cards and also signed on the dole for his giro and rent money.  Anyway, we all got together and gave him about £80k as he said he would gamble it for us and turn it into £160k but do you know what, he didn't!  We didn't sign anything like specific terms or anything, we just thought he could double our money gambling because he said so, but we reckon he lost some and spent some and might even still have some - can you arrest him please officer?"

"Of course sir, right away, this sounds like a particularly vicious, cold and calculating crime of gambling with your money like you wanted him to (even though you knew he was a wrongun) so you could make a quick buck out of someone else, but not quite in the way you wanted him to.  He'll get years for that sir, years of enjoyment from it.  In fact sir I'll go arrest him right this moment, now if only you could lend me a grand for the taxi fare please sir..."

"Excellent officer, would you like cash or shall I ship it to you via stars, some of my friends could pay for you to take some extra people with you if you'd like, we're like that."
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Sweat
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« Reply #2158 on: June 23, 2010, 10:57:27 AM »

On your first two points, which are disputable given the lack of any written agreements and the inescapable fact that friends or people who knew somebody by reputation only, informally gave a fellow gambler money to gamble in the hope of making a profit, you might just be able to dispute this in a civil law court with no guarantee of success.  It is not a criminal offence though.

Your point with regard to benefit fraud is probably valid, they'd certainly be interested if it is means tested benefits as cash/savings would preclude him from that which is a criminal offence and they still might be interested even if it is just contributory benefits he's receiving as to receive even that which isn't means tested, he has to be actively seeking employment, I can guarantee you pointing them at this thread will give a bored civil servant hours of fun and perhaps him some discomfort, as would pointing his IVA administrator at this thread.

You might want to look at other threads about this, such as on the betfair poker forum.  At some stage the group of wronged people here will eventually realise they have been silly, it isn't a criminal offence and they will either decide to move on or club together again to have their day in a civil court, that will at least cause him more discomfort if nothing else.  Until then, having a group e-hug isn't an offence either, nor is having a pop at anyone who isn't part of the gang who might pop by to post an opinion not clouded by emotions.

You do not need to be in breach of a written, legally-binding, signed agreement to be prosecuted for obtaining money by deception.

Many of his patent lies are documented here in black & white, spinning his stakers lie after lie despite evidence which has surfaced to the contrary.

Many of these investigations are dependent on number of people affected. If it was just 1 guy conned from 300 quid or whatever, it's a waste of time. It appears there have been 40+ people ripped off in this particular incident alone. Who is to know what else he has been involved in elsewhere, perhaps under different pseudonyms? There is a strong possibility he's ripped off many more than what was initially thought. Quite simply, the more people who complain, the more likely the Police will react.

It's not a criminal offence to ask for money and be given it, but it's a criminal offence to effectively steal that money under false pretenses. By all accounts he has been withdrawing £1k sums very recently, meaning it is very possible the money has not been 'lost' at all.

As I say, I have run this past someone, out of nothing more than interest, since I have met the perpetrator and am disgusted that someone who looks so polished and friendly from the outside for so long could be so heinous. Letting it lie and putting down to experience, effectively letting him off scot-free, when there is a strong possibility he is still in possession of some of the funds, is absolutely the wrong thing to do. Had I been affected, I would certainly NOT be letting it slide and say 'I was daft.'

I ask you once more, are you Blatch? I noticed you ignored that part.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2010, 11:12:35 AM by Sweat » Logged
redsimon
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« Reply #2159 on: June 23, 2010, 11:15:40 AM »

Palawan:

Blatch has already admitted by PM to the WSOP stakers that he has not used the stake monies gathered in to fund a Vegas trip intended to start next week but to try and spin up to get out of his "hole". He claims all this is now gone. What part of the WSOP stake being used that way would you argue wasn't a criminal act?

Mods:

Maybe time to lock thread again soon?
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