Discussions about: Staking - Betfair Football Trading

[sovietsong]

sigh

Its a girls account but almost everyone knows who it is. The initial remark was uncalled for.

Which is why I removed it, but you all keep quoting it.....

All gone.
Pls remove my I love dave post as it was in response to the deleted messages and people will think I love him. Also delete this one too!!
Be good, keep calm, carry on x

I always knew this was the case mate

and you're [ ] good with quoting on this board ;-)

lol you daft sod. I quoted my own post.

One of us is confused, but I'm too tired to work out which xx

[celtic]

Will betfair care?

If there is fraudulent activity which this surely is (dumping money from one account to another) surely they have to investigate.

ok, was genuine question, i suppose you're right if thats whats happened.

[Teacake]

 ultimately he was making other points and asking the sort questions that should of been more purposefully brought up weeks and months ago by those with a vested interest. had they done so then perhaps the problem wouldn't have escalated to what it has become now.

Give that man a coconut. The lack of transparency in this "venture" was incredible, especially with the sums of money involved. The updates were laughable but you still got dozens of "solids" no matter whether it was win or loss posted.

[kinboshi]

 ultimately he was making other points and asking the sort questions that should of been more purposefully brought up weeks and months ago by those with a vested interest. had they done so then perhaps the problem wouldn't have escalated to what it has become now.

Give that man a coconut. The lack of transparency in this "venture" was incredible, especially with the sums of money involved. The updates were laughable but you still got dozens of "solids" no matter whether it was win or loss posted.

A lot of investors were getting frequent updates on a regular basis with their communications with Blatch.  Just because it wasn't all posted on the thread, doesn't mean there weren't updates.  Obviously, in hindsight they weren't enough.  But like I said before, I considered him a friend as well as someone I'd invested a decent chunk of money with.  Why wouldn't I trust him?

Also, questions were asked months ago, and more recently several weeks ago more and more questions were being asked - culminating in this all coming out now.

The only way going to the police could help the stakers see any return at all would be if the money has been syphoned off somewhere and is still in Blatch's possession.  Otherwise, as Guy said, it'll just lead to bankruptcy and the debts being written off and non-chaseable in the future.  As has been pointed out, there is definitely a non-zero chance that the money is still retrievable and so those owed money would be foolish not to consider the actions that have the greatest chance of bringing back any return at all.

[treefella]

 Do we think that this started out as a genuine venture that 'nice guy blatch " wanted to share his good judgement and potential  wealth with ?
 Or was it a more sinister contrived  plan to actually fund a playboy gamblers lifestyle with the delusion that 'the big win ' would keep him out of jail ?

[ForthThistle]

Re: (No subject)
« Sent to: ForthThistle on: June 04, 2010, 05:48:49 PM »     

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey,

I sent a reply but not sure if it sent or not,

More than welcome to come aboard, I would prefer bank transfer to 13498687 and 72 50 03 or otherwise to Full Tilt to SickoChamp10K

Cheers.
 
How ironic is his Full Tilt Name SICKOCHAMP10K145K

I am disgusted by this PM i received last week prior to the World Cup Starting

[The Baron]

I havent replied till now because I went out last night and was in a pretty bad mood.  Ive also had a few things to do this morning and wanted to re read a few messages before I posted.  I dont feel that I have to reply but seeing as this is now over 13 pages of crap written its probably best that I do.  Ill try to answer as many questions that I can and hopefully put a finish on this so we can move on a bit.

Firstly Mark, and im assuming your Mark Wilson, I really dont know why you have this passionate hate for me.  Im not sure if you remember but around a year ago at DTD you had been drinking a bit and decided to sit at a cash game where I was playing whilst waiting for George to finish in the comp.  You simply sat down and played 6 hands in an hour and instead of playing you simply threw abuse at me for an hour.  I sat there and took assuming you were drunk and not really sure who you were.  The comments from you such as "I know who you are but im not telling you who I am" etc I found a bit weird.  It got to the point where 2 people and the dealer complained about the abuse and eventually 2 left because of it and then the game broke.  IIRC I had never spoken to you before nor even been at the same table.  So I can only assume that you hate me because your not known as "The Betfair Guy", im not claiming I am either but the sucess of this has to be the reason. 

As for some of your questions and other points you make, I think they have all been covered by other investors but if not ill try to cover most of them from memory.

I have never claimed to have any "information sources".  It is simply myself pricing up games and assuming / guessing / thinking which way the markets will move.  I apologise to my investors if they were led to believe different but I think this is quite clear on the OP and to all the investors that came on board.  I do however have places I look for reseeach / information / stats on the Internet and I have a spreadsheet of previous movements which I consult when certain factors are involved.

This South Korea vs Greece game, seems to be quite a big point for you.  It seems as if I have made a big mistake in missing this game, and yes, we could have made a big profit on this game.  I apologise to my investors if they were under the impression that I would be working on this trading 24/7 and treating it as my main job.  I also apologise if they thought I would be trading every single game, or if they thought I would be sacrificing my social life to do this.  As Simon Galloway points out on page 101, 2 posts off the bottom, he is quite clear as to what he expected and although I am annoyed I didnt see this one Im not going to apologise too much for it.  As already stated the whole of Saturday was going to be out for me, but I thought I would try to do the England game as previously it had worked well for me and more importantly the timing of the game wouldnt interfere at all with the rest of the day.

You also state that poker players have asked you about this.  I have no problem with you giving your advice but why dont you keep it to those that ask?  If you want to say im a joke and dont know what im doing to individuals that ask you directly then by all means tell them that, after all it is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

You keep saying you have no axe to grind, but to myself and others it seems you clear do, from the events at DTD to over 14 pages of this now.

Your next point says you went to bet that I dont have a 2% commision account on page 91.  I have never claimed to have a 2% account and infact I hope I was quite open that this would be a new account and therefore the commision would have to start on 5%.  Again if I havent made this clear to anyone then I apologise.  Within the same point you claim I need staking for this.  The quite simple fact is that I dont.  This was however an experiment at the start of the season and again I hope I highlighted this quite well.  I wasnt sure if it was going to a sucess or not but I explained what I was hoping to do.  I didnt beg for staking nor did I force anyone to join.  The blonde forum has a great spirit about it and I believe investors saw an opputunity to hopefully make a few quid whilst having something to follow for the football season.  I hope I nevr portrayed this as a get rich quick scheme as this was never likely, but again if I did to anyone then I apologise.

For some weird reason you seem to think I have to know people to be good at this.  Your right, I probably dont know the top 5 players but I certainly know the number 1, and although I dont speak to him apart from when I see him maybe 2 or 3 times a year I dont see what this proves.   Why do I need to these players to make a profit?  Dont get me wrong it would help but its not a definate need.

Next point - Evilpie you are a %£$&, you well know im not in my 30's, simply my late 20's who had a tough paper round.

I think the next point you move onto was the roulette.  Its probably best that you dont listen to rumour like this but on this instance you are half correct.  Yes I did have a little play on the roulette and yes it was on the 28/29 section but it was £!k a spin and nor was it £50 notes.  I chucked over a bag of £20 notes that I had won at the cash game that night at DTD and spent just over half of it on around 4 or 5 spins.  I really dont see what I do with my cash is anyone business.

Next point - Staking.  I think this one has annoyed a few people as some of the greatest players in the World are staked, and each have their own reasons.  On some of the bigger events I like to sell a few % and for the cash game in Vegas I have sold half of my action.  There are many a reason why people get staked and normally lack of funds isnt one of them.  I could be mistaken but I believe Flushy is staked, Dubai is staked and even some of the Full Tilt red pros are staked full time.  I dont see staking as a weakness at all and so long as people are happy to stake me for certain events then ill keep offering it.  I still look at poker a sbeing a hobby.  A hobby that has produced me some good results and some very profitable ones.  I dont rely on poker for an income and maybe this is one of the reasons why I have had a few results.

Then we have the whole MSN convo with Iwillwinlots.  Personally for you to state the convo once he has asked you specificaly not to was pretty wrong.  I have had a few PM's with him and although he knows im annoyed with the situation, it doesnt change anything.  He has asked to cash out and I have made him aware of the situation, he will get his money as soon as it arrives.  Although sadly he didnt make as much money as some, he has still made money.  The return isnt huge but £150 profit on a £700 for a few months is still more than reasonable and certainly alot more than what he would receive in the bank.

I believe the next point was about having the money in your account.  Funnily enough I dont see this as an option. 

I do feel slightly annoyed that everyone was hucky dory on here for around 7 or 8 months but as soon as I have 3 losers on the trot then people suddenyl want to see screenshots.  No-one ever questioned anything while things were going well but know its all different.  As I stated in the opening thread I would be happy to provide statements or even open the account up to people whilst at DTD.  I believe I have done this for 3 people involved and also 2 different people have watched me trade out of a game at DTD including Colchester Kev.  I do find it a bit insulting that people know want to see things but as said before I will do it.  I certainly wont be posting anything up on here for everyone to see but will happily supply things for investors only to see.

Finally it now seems that you are making MSN convo's up to further make me look bad.  I really dont see why your doing this but you really shouldnt involve others into this.  Tighty has confirmed that the other convo's didnt happen so why put this?

Im hoping this covers everything as I doubt im going to make such a reply again.  This really has annoyed me which is probably what you set out to achieve.  Again I just like to point out a few key statements: -

I have never claimed to know anyone that moves markets
I have never claimed to have a 2% account
I dont charge for what im doing
Im only doing this from my own judgement and was an experiment at the start of the season
I do have some money myself invested in this
I stand to gain a lot of knowledge from doing this which will help in other areas
I stand to gain an account that has a reduced commision.

Seriously sickening.

[celtic]

So sick, this is even worst than I thought. I think the investors need to get together and decide on an appropriate way course of action. Asking questions of Blatch is completely pointless, his word cannot possibly be trusted. A full investigation needs to be carried out as there is deffo more than a zero possibility that Blatch has in fact made 100k+ out of this .

Can be cleared up by Cos, who now has access to Blatch's accounts, by checking the withdrawls

not if he did what others have suggested and laid certain bets then taken them from another account to which he has not given access to.

can you tell which other account was bet against on BF? is it the same account all the time? - or is that just me being  hopeful?

Guy, Rooks has looked over it.

the total loss on that account from open to close was £43584.20

that works out to more than what was invested he believes but that includes 2 x £5k dumps

[kinboshi]

I havent replied till now because I went out last night and was in a pretty bad mood.  Ive also had a few things to do this morning and wanted to re read a few messages before I posted.  I dont feel that I have to reply but seeing as this is now over 13 pages of crap written its probably best that I do.  Ill try to answer as many questions that I can and hopefully put a finish on this so we can move on a bit.

Firstly Mark, and im assuming your Mark Wilson, I really dont know why you have this passionate hate for me.  Im not sure if you remember but around a year ago at DTD you had been drinking a bit and decided to sit at a cash game where I was playing whilst waiting for George to finish in the comp.  You simply sat down and played 6 hands in an hour and instead of playing you simply threw abuse at me for an hour.  I sat there and took assuming you were drunk and not really sure who you were.  The comments from you such as "I know who you are but im not telling you who I am" etc I found a bit weird.  It got to the point where 2 people and the dealer complained about the abuse and eventually 2 left because of it and then the game broke.  IIRC I had never spoken to you before nor even been at the same table.  So I can only assume that you hate me because your not known as "The Betfair Guy", im not claiming I am either but the sucess of this has to be the reason. 

As for some of your questions and other points you make, I think they have all been covered by other investors but if not ill try to cover most of them from memory.

I have never claimed to have any "information sources".  It is simply myself pricing up games and assuming / guessing / thinking which way the markets will move.  I apologise to my investors if they were led to believe different but I think this is quite clear on the OP and to all the investors that came on board.  I do however have places I look for reseeach / information / stats on the Internet and I have a spreadsheet of previous movements which I consult when certain factors are involved.

This South Korea vs Greece game, seems to be quite a big point for you.  It seems as if I have made a big mistake in missing this game, and yes, we could have made a big profit on this game.  I apologise to my investors if they were under the impression that I would be working on this trading 24/7 and treating it as my main job.  I also apologise if they thought I would be trading every single game, or if they thought I would be sacrificing my social life to do this.  As Simon Galloway points out on page 101, 2 posts off the bottom, he is quite clear as to what he expected and although I am annoyed I didnt see this one Im not going to apologise too much for it.  As already stated the whole of Saturday was going to be out for me, but I thought I would try to do the England game as previously it had worked well for me and more importantly the timing of the game wouldnt interfere at all with the rest of the day.

You also state that poker players have asked you about this.  I have no problem with you giving your advice but why dont you keep it to those that ask?  If you want to say im a joke and dont know what im doing to individuals that ask you directly then by all means tell them that, after all it is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

You keep saying you have no axe to grind, but to myself and others it seems you clear do, from the events at DTD to over 14 pages of this now.

Your next point says you went to bet that I dont have a 2% commision account on page 91.  I have never claimed to have a 2% account and infact I hope I was quite open that this would be a new account and therefore the commision would have to start on 5%.  Again if I havent made this clear to anyone then I apologise.  Within the same point you claim I need staking for this.  The quite simple fact is that I dont.  This was however an experiment at the start of the season and again I hope I highlighted this quite well.  I wasnt sure if it was going to a sucess or not but I explained what I was hoping to do.  I didnt beg for staking nor did I force anyone to join.  The blonde forum has a great spirit about it and I believe investors saw an opputunity to hopefully make a few quid whilst having something to follow for the football season.  I hope I nevr portrayed this as a get rich quick scheme as this was never likely, but again if I did to anyone then I apologise.

For some weird reason you seem to think I have to know people to be good at this.  Your right, I probably dont know the top 5 players but I certainly know the number 1, and although I dont speak to him apart from when I see him maybe 2 or 3 times a year I dont see what this proves.   Why do I need to these players to make a profit?  Dont get me wrong it would help but its not a definate need.

Next point - Evilpie you are a %£$&, you well know im not in my 30's, simply my late 20's who had a tough paper round.

I think the next point you move onto was the roulette.  Its probably best that you dont listen to rumour like this but on this instance you are half correct.  Yes I did have a little play on the roulette and yes it was on the 28/29 section but it was £!k a spin and nor was it £50 notes.  I chucked over a bag of £20 notes that I had won at the cash game that night at DTD and spent just over half of it on around 4 or 5 spins.  I really dont see what I do with my cash is anyone business.

Next point - Staking.  I think this one has annoyed a few people as some of the greatest players in the World are staked, and each have their own reasons.  On some of the bigger events I like to sell a few % and for the cash game in Vegas I have sold half of my action.  There are many a reason why people get staked and normally lack of funds isnt one of them.  I could be mistaken but I believe Flushy is staked, Dubai is staked and even some of the Full Tilt red pros are staked full time.  I dont see staking as a weakness at all and so long as people are happy to stake me for certain events then ill keep offering it.  I still look at poker a sbeing a hobby.  A hobby that has produced me some good results and some very profitable ones.  I dont rely on poker for an income and maybe this is one of the reasons why I have had a few results.

Then we have the whole MSN convo with Iwillwinlots.  Personally for you to state the convo once he has asked you specificaly not to was pretty wrong.  I have had a few PM's with him and although he knows im annoyed with the situation, it doesnt change anything.  He has asked to cash out and I have made him aware of the situation, he will get his money as soon as it arrives.  Although sadly he didnt make as much money as some, he has still made money.  The return isnt huge but £150 profit on a £700 for a few months is still more than reasonable and certainly alot more than what he would receive in the bank.

I believe the next point was about having the money in your account.  Funnily enough I dont see this as an option. 

I do feel slightly annoyed that everyone was hucky dory on here for around 7 or 8 months but as soon as I have 3 losers on the trot then people suddenyl want to see screenshots.  No-one ever questioned anything while things were going well but know its all different.  As I stated in the opening thread I would be happy to provide statements or even open the account up to people whilst at DTD.  I believe I have done this for 3 people involved and also 2 different people have watched me trade out of a game at DTD including Colchester Kev.  I do find it a bit insulting that people know want to see things but as said before I will do it.  I certainly wont be posting anything up on here for everyone to see but will happily supply things for investors only to see.

Finally it now seems that you are making MSN convo's up to further make me look bad.  I really dont see why your doing this but you really shouldnt involve others into this.  Tighty has confirmed that the other convo's didnt happen so why put this?

Im hoping this covers everything as I doubt im going to make such a reply again.  This really has annoyed me which is probably what you set out to achieve.  Again I just like to point out a few key statements: -

I have never claimed to know anyone that moves markets
I have never claimed to have a 2% account
I dont charge for what im doing
Im only doing this from my own judgement and was an experiment at the start of the season
I do have some money myself invested in this
I stand to gain a lot of knowledge from doing this which will help in other areas
I stand to gain an account that has a reduced commision.

Seriously sickening.

More sickening is that I spoke to him about it before then, and read that, and believed him.  I feel like a complete mug.

[redarmi]

Well I am the 5% PM person on the cash WSOP and Im paid up, and I dont think I am out of order saying that stu rutter paid up for his huge chunk of the main event side too - thats like 3k+

This is my biggest concern that dawned on me a couple of hours ago.............. the are thousands if not tens of thousands ADDITIONAL to the stake money that have been sent since

thats why i asked what his BF rolll was.

Blatch seems failry shrewd when it comes to betting (normally) and all these 1.01 bets just dont make a fucking sense other than him creaming the money off.

I wanted to believe him, but since my post a few hours ago, and after the win was identified on the Liverpool stoke game, i dont see how i can.

I do believe that he might have degen'd off all the money -  but no-one is looking at this spreadsheet and saying yeah we can see where it all is?

how long would a forensic review take of the spreadsheets by arbboy or redsimon (or anyone else who offered?) - is this a day   - a week?

To get an idea of whether or not there was significantly more to look into would probably take 3 days or so if there are as many line items as I suspect and my experience of Betfair accounting means it takes a bit of putting together.  From there if there is more to be looked into it wouold require some help from Betfair to understand who the counterparties are to the suspicious bets and then look at the moneytrail from there.  I couldn't honestly put a timeline on that.

[byronkincaid]

Then we have the whole MSN convo with Iwillwinlots.  Personally for you to state the convo once he has asked you specificaly not to was pretty wrong.  I have had a few PM's with him and although he knows im annoyed with the situation, it doesnt change anything.  He has asked to cash out and I have made him aware of the situation, he will get his money as soon as it arrives.  Although sadly he didnt make as much money as some, he has still made money.  The return isnt huge but £150 profit on a £700 for a few months is still more than reasonable and certainly alot more than what he would receive in the bank.

wasn't iwillwinlots (one of) the first to invest? was reading the first few pages of that thread earlier. what happened to the 250% profit lie?

[bobbybh]

Then we have the whole MSN convo with Iwillwinlots.  Personally for you to state the convo once he has asked you specificaly not to was pretty wrong.  I have had a few PM's with him and although he knows im annoyed with the situation, it doesnt change anything.  He has asked to cash out and I have made him aware of the situation, he will get his money as soon as it arrives.  Although sadly he didnt make as much money as some, he has still made money.  The return isnt huge but £150 profit on a £700 for a few months is still more than reasonable and certainly alot more than what he would receive in the bank.

wasn't iwillwinlots (one of) the first to invest? was reading the first few pages of that thread earlier. what happened to the 250% profit lie?

iwillwinlots here, i suspected it was iffy when he told me i had a £50 profit on  a £700 stake when the same day he told others they were up 250%.

feel sick   about all of this and hes took everyone for mugs, karma is a bitch

[outragous76]

I havent .

Seriously sickening.

More sickening is that I spoke to him about it before then, and read that, and believed him.  I feel like a complete mug.

buddy i think there are plenty of us feeling like this

i had only recently got to know blatch, and i even sent him a text earlier which wasnt harsh at all...........and he responded politely.............. so i feel like he kept grimming me even after he was busted today

[fivebetjam]

http://community.betfair.com/football/go/thread/view/94070/25085669/how_i_lost_100k_of_others_peoples_money_trading_on_betfair?sdb=1

[GrafhamGrinder]

I heard iwillwinlots was a massive donk fish.