Discussions about: Staking - Betfair Football Trading

[The Camel]

Id love someone to price up- Charged yes or no. Jail yes or no.

Me too

I think if he gets charged, jail is near certainty.

But whether he gets chrged is the big question.

Off the top of my head:

Charged: 4/7 yes   5/4 no

if charged:

Jail: 1/10 yes    6/1 no

And no, I'm not laying those prices.

[erse]

Regarding the "odd" bets at <1.10 for large amounts (that looked like laundering)

Also, the fact that not all the funds he was given were placed into his 'account'

If he was actually siphoning off from his staking account for the large amounts shown, he (or someone else) would need a similar large amount to match the bets. If it was him, I'd imagine (heresay I know) that the other half was put into his personal/other account to match the unusual bets.

Because...if you're going to lay a cricketer for several grand, the person matching the bet will need some decent cash in the 'other' account to take advantage.

Just something to bear in mind if a) He was moving money between betfair accounts and b) Why not all money was deposited into the 'staking' account.

p.s. betfair know exactly who bets on what and when, IP addresses logged. When fraud is involved, ISP's can be contacted. Unless it was a very shrewed (and technical) operation... betfair can easily discover whether movement of money between accounts was deliberate, at least, outside a court of law.

[ACE2M]

Id love someone to price up- Charged yes or no. Jail yes or no.

Me too

i fancy the police would only be interested in the deception on wsop stake, i would think it is a civil matter in their eyes beyond that.

charged -
yes - 1/2 no - 6/4

jail time -
yes - 5/1 no - 1/8

[Dubai]

Id love someone to price up- Charged yes or no. Jail yes or no.

Me too

i fancy the police would only be interested in the deception on wsop stake, i would think it is a civil matter in their eyes beyond that.

charged -
yes - 1/2 no - 6/4

jail time -
yes - 5/1 no - 1/8

Please dont post intelligent thought out replies here. You are ruining the price.

[Palawan]

The one point I'd like to make is in regards to the people calling for the police involvement what criminal offence has been committed?

see 6 posts before yours

But was it criminal deception? 

Factually a defence position would be that he asked for stakers to stake him trading, which is just gambling in the sense it is placing bets to win or lose and everybody knows gambling is no guarantee of winning and people voluntarily gave him the stakes and he gambled it.  I don't see that as deception and boasting one is doing better than one is isn't a crime.  Unless there are any written contracts clearly stating that it was a guaranteed no lose investment with fixed returns, it's flakey at best.

If I was to lend any of you money and you didn't pay it back I couldn't get you prosecuted for it, it would simply become an unregulated bad debt which I could pursue through courts at my own expense to try to gain some sort of repayment or judgement, not a criminal offence that police would be interested in.

It's a mess, ruined reputations and friendships and lessons learned but not a criminal offence.

[The Camel]

A near 100k fraud, and you think it's a 5/1 shot he gets time?

[arbboy]

with you on this one keith.  If he gets charged he is short to serve time.  KEy thing for me about this is whether people want to go the embarrassment of admitting in court they got turned over outside of poker forums.  If i was involved i would write it off as a bad bet.  If anyone has over invested to their roll then they have to learn the lesson of being greedy and move on.

[Dubai]

Only a tiny % of the investment could be considered possible fraud, from a legel perspective btw

[lazaroonie]

Only a tiny % of the investment could be considered possible fraud, from a legel perspective btw

without knowing how much money people had invested, you cannot possibly make that statement with any faith in its accuracy.

[sofa----king]

im not adding much on here but you guys really got to think if there is any case to answer,the ammount of evidence written on this forum and elswhere right or wrong,the case wouldnt even get to court,as it has all been dissused out loud before any charges are/were made......just my thought please dont lynch me.....but courts are very,very funny about this type of thing...a bit like colouding...ganging up ect...unfair trial ect....evidence exposed ect....

[Dubai]

Only a tiny % of the investment could be considered possible fraud, from a legel perspective btw

without knowing how much money people had invested, you cannot possibly make that statement with any faith in its accuracy.

Anything deposited initially wont be seen as fraud. Snap for any investments made during any period when he was actually betting on football. Id guess this is a large %. Wouldnt you?

[Dubai]

im not adding much on here but you guys really got to think if there is any case to answer,the ammount of evidence written on this forum and elswhere right or wrong,the case wouldnt even get to court,as it has all been dissused out loud before any charges are/were made......just my thought please dont lynch me.....but courts are very,very funny about this type of thing...a bit like colouding...ganging up ect...unfair trial ect....evidence exposed ect....

Thats only if a jury would be influenced. They "arent funny" about stuff like this. Its not relevant here

[lazaroonie]

Only a tiny % of the investment could be considered possible fraud, from a legel perspective btw

without knowing how much money people had invested, you cannot possibly make that statement with any faith in its accuracy.

Anything deposited initially wont be seen as fraud. Snap for any investments made during any period when he was actually betting on football. Id guess this is a large %. Wouldnt you?

Well, if we take the perceived investment amount as being 70K and there is actually only around 20K of documented losses (taking out the 1.01 trades) then the remaining amount considerably more than a tiny %

[Jon MW]

Only a tiny % of the investment could be considered possible fraud, from a legel perspective btw

without knowing how much money people had invested, you cannot possibly make that statement with any faith in its accuracy.

Anything deposited initially wont be seen as fraud. Snap for any investments made during any period when he was actually betting on football. Id guess this is a large %. Wouldnt you?

It seems like quite some time ago I made the point that the first thing the police would have to decide would be if a criminal offence had taken place, and exactly what it was if there was one.

And if it was worthwhile even investigating if there was one.

Wrong doing might be obvious - but the criminal or civil law behind it isn't so clear cut

[GreekStein]

I think Blatch was lying about never planning to go to the WSOP. He even played the DTD £550 sat for a package so I really think his intention was to go.

However, I think he was planning it as his one last chance to bink his way out of trouble or maybe just out of pure greed/ego that made him want to play the main event etc.