Discussions about: Staking - Betfair Football Trading

[The Camel]

He said he was only going to bet prematch on football.

He broke this almost immediately.

That looks like fraud to me.

[Dubai]

He can just say he was betting postmatch with only his portion of the share

[Ismene]

Or the spreadsheet has been amended before it was given out.

Has the new one requested come through yet?

Nope.... not certain it will tbh, not now that BF are looking into it for themselves...

[Doobs]

Well it looks like fraud to me pretty much from the start.

and it probably breaks the FSA rules on collective investment schemes.  You could find others, but here is an example.  http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Library/Communication/PR/2006/047.shtml

And I think continuing a discussion like this could be seen as contempt of court if he was arrested/charged.  But the charges aren't ever going to get thrown out because of a discussion here that none of the jury would have read.

[Haviton]

There is a lot of talk about police and jail, when hardly anyone actually understands the law and how complex it is.

Id love someone to price up- Charged yes or no. Jail yes or no.

Dub

Id bet 1/3 charged

7/4 Jail if Charged.

And greetings good man (LLM)

[Haviton]

The one point I'd like to make is in regards to the people calling for the police involvement what criminal offence has been committed?

see 6 posts before yours

But was it criminal deception? 

it becomes deception when the prosecution provides forum threads of him saying yeh weve done this. THAT is when the deception occurs.

He is also in breach of FSA regs but think that is the least of his worries.

Factually a defence position would be that he asked for stakers to stake him trading, which is just gambling in the sense it is placing bets to win or lose and everybody knows gambling is no guarantee of winning and people voluntarily gave him the stakes and he gambled it.  I don't see that as deception and boasting one is doing better than one is isn't a crime.  Unless there are any written contracts clearly stating that it was a guaranteed no lose investment with fixed returns, it's flakey at best.

If I was to lend any of you money and you didn't pay it back I couldn't get you prosecuted for it, it would simply become an unregulated bad debt which I could pursue through courts at my own expense to try to gain some sort of repayment or judgement, not a criminal offence that police would be interested in.

It's a mess, ruined reputations and friendships and lessons learned but not a criminal offence.

[BigArmo]

There is a lot of talk about police and jail, when hardly anyone actually understands the law and whole complex it is.

Id love someone to price up- Charged yes or no. Jail yes or no.

Oh boy never thought i'd ever see a thread like this on Blonde sad day really.
Am i a Solicitor/Barrister/Poiliceman no but in a previouse employment i was part of sting to catch a Manager with his hand in the till.
He had stolen/siphoned about 80k over 12 months we had the following evidence.

Computer logs on his password deleting invoices.
Sworn statements from employees given to a private investigator.
Copies of signed paperwork which he had disposed of later.

What happened when we gave this to the police ........... bugger all they didn't prosecute due to lack of evidence.

Our MD kicked up a fuss even wrote to his local MP but nothing, the simple fact is company/personnel fraud is not top of their list.
The officer in charge said ‘off the record’ if the same crime was against the Inland Revenue/Credit Card Company/Bank then yes they may have taken the case on but in there opinion no one got physically hurt and its too much hassle for what a suspended sentence?

The only option you may have is to pursue a civil case to retrieve monies but if its all gone what’s the point

I really do feel for all of you but don’t expect too much from the police, there are a few holes in your evidence which anybody representing Blatch could blow wide open.
I’m also show more will come out of the woodwork in the next few days as more stones are turned over.

Sterling work Homer by the way! Piecing together some sort of timeline in this mess.

[Palawan]

Civil Law, it's a contract dispute over money lent or given for purposes where a 'victim' is alleging the 'contract' was broken either in whole or in part and wishes to claim compensation.  With no clear cut and defined contract it becomes cloudy, certainly expensive for the 'victims' to pursue through a civil law court, though not impossible.

You giving/lending me ten pound for food and me smoking it isn't fraud or a criminal offence.  I missed the bit about this/him being registered with and regulated by the FSA.

[Dubai]

Yes Civil courts are totally different. They found OJ guilty haha

But u cant get blood from a stone so even this is probably a waste of time

[The Camel]

Well it looks like fraud to me pretty much from the start.

and it probably breaks the FSA rules on collective investment schemes.  You could find others, but here is an example.  http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Library/Communication/PR/2006/047.shtml

And I think continuing a discussion like this could be seen as contempt of court if he was arrested/charged.  But the charges aren't ever going to get thrown out because of a discussion here that none of the jury would have read.

It was entrapment.

Dubai knew I couldn't resist the chance to price it up.

[Dubai]

It is a gambling forum. I wont promise to pay any bets i lose tho

[damo66688]

Anything deposited initially wont be seen as fraud. Snap for any investments made during any period when he was actually betting on football. Id guess this is a large %. Wouldnt you?

Again the same.

[MadHorse]

There really isn't much you can do in truth, you trusted someone with your money and things didn't work out as planned but given there is no "contract" of sorts then it’s going to be hard for the parties involved to pin a fraudulent case on him as he hasn't breached any regulations or conditions. The question is whether he had the capacity to involve himself within such a large accumulation of liability and it’s a thin line when deciding whether someone has a mental illness or are just a very bad gambler.

[lazaroonie]

There really isn't much you can do in truth, you trusted someone with your money and things didn't work out as planned but given there is no "contract" of sorts then it’s going to be hard for the parties involved to pin a fraudulent case on him as he hasn't breached any regulations or conditions. The question is whether he had the capacity to involve himself within such a large accumulation of liability and it’s a thin line when deciding whether someone has a mental illness or are just a very bad gambler.

i am no contract law expert but I would suggest that there is some element of 'implied contract' here

definition - "Legally enforceable agreement  that arises from the conduct, assumed intentions, some relationship  among the immediate parties, or due to the application of the legal  principle  of equity. For example, a contract  is implied when a party  knowingly accepts  a benefit  from another party in circumstances where the benefit cannot be considered a gift."

[Dubai]

Yes agree there is an implied contract- whether he broke the contract by purely gambling rather than what people hoped he would do, is very dubious