Are england the most overrated team in world football

[Murph1984]

Talk about hysteria!! Jesus Christ!

People really need to get their heads out of the clouds if they think the senior players are not going to be a part of the Euro 2012 campaign.

Terry and Ferdinand are still 2 of the best centre-backs in the game,as are Gerrard and Lampard with regards to midfield.Ashley Cole is still the best left-back in the game.

Do people really think that there is going to be a qualifying campaign on a major championships going on with a squad consisting of players from Everton,Spurs,Villa and god knows whoever else while the likes of Terry,Lmaprd,Cole,Gerrard and Ferdinand are competing for league titles and playing against the best Europe has to offer in the Champions League? Wake up imo.

Yes get the likes of Jagielka,Dawson,Cahill,Shawcross,Gibbs,Rodwell,Johnson,Wilshere,Young,Agbonlahor,Sturridge etc involved but do it slowly and gradually ffs.

If you throw them in too soon and it doesn't take off the press will hound them as much as they do the players now,it's what they do.You'll end up killing their international careers before they've even begun!!

The players are there to have a go at Euro2012,it's just down to whether or not Capello has learned from this summer that he got the camp and formation wrong.

He's talking about introducing mew players to give the squad a new energy,I think this makes sense but most f them should be involved as squad players,they can still bring a whole lot of energy to the camp in training while at the same time soaking up as much experience as possible.

The same players,allowed to relax and express themselves,in a 433 or 451 formation could go into 2012 as a threat.I've said all along that 442 is dead,no top team plays it for a reason,it is too easily ran-over.

Apart from the formation one other major change is needed,and that is to have a "dog" in midfield.Not one midfielder that went to South Africa could tackle.Barry is not that player,neither is Carrick,Huddlestone never has been and never will be.Rodwell could be that player but needs time,he may well be too cultured too good a footballer to be limited to that role.

It needs someone who is an absolute terrier,who will never stop running and put their body on the line time and time again.If Hargreaves can regain fitness he would be ideal,if not the next best option would be Parker and then Cattermole.These two are not as great on the ball as they would be ideally but you need to have someone of that type in the side,what they lack for in talent they make up for in effort and in how much they disrupt and break up opposition attacks.It's the role that Makelele made famous and now every top side has one,Toure,Mascherano,Busquets,Gilberto Silva,Mikel,De Rossi,Diarra.

I know I went on a bit for someone who isn't even English but there's so much rubbish being written/spoken by so called experts all over the media it is unreal!

[Josedinho]

I think most people were talking about next world cup. The players that will hopefully be household names in 4 years time.
It was reported today that a number of England players are considering their future now that Capello is staying so i don't think anybody knows for sure which players will be involved.

[Murph1984]

Yeah but i've heard a lot talking about changing it now.

The next generation need to prove themselves at club level first,most of the ones being talked about haven't even played 50 first team games.

And like it or not then next generation are not even remotely close to being as talented as this one.

[boldie]

Yeah but i've heard a lot talking about changing it now.

The next generation need to prove themselves at club level first,most of the ones being talked about haven't even played 50 first team games.

And like it or not then next generation are not even remotely close to being as talented as this one.

But you have to build towards the next WC, that is the point. That is what Germany are doing/have done and this is the right way to do it IMO.
You can't build a team for the next WC if you will always use Terry, Ferdinand, Lampard and Gerrard. Ofcourse they are the best now but right now, you're out of the WC...and right now doesn't count anymore.

[henrik777]

If Gerrard and Lampard had kicked a ball for England recently then you would have to play them. However it amazes me that they both still are considered must starts given how bad they have performed over many games. They have proven that they just can't cut it at international level no matter how their club careers are going and how high a level they play at.

As a Scot i hope you keep playing them.

Sandy

[Murph1984]

Yeah but i've heard a lot talking about changing it now.

The next generation need to prove themselves at club level first,most of the ones being talked about haven't even played 50 first team games.

And like it or not then next generation are not even remotely close to being as talented as this one.

But you have to build towards the next WC, that is the point. That is what Germany are doing/have done and this is the right way to do it IMO.
You can't build a team for the next WC if you will always use Terry, Ferdinand, Lampard and Gerrard. Ofcourse they are the best now but right now, you're out of the WC...and right now doesn't count anymore.

I'm not,we never got there 

It's a complete myth that the Germans conciously decided to scrap it all and start afresh with youngsters.A myth that has again been fabricated by the media who's lack of knowledge is unbelievable.

If you look at their 2006 squad you see the likes of Lehmann(was 36),Nowotny(was 32),Neuville(was 33),Kahn(was 36),Scneider(was 32).

In 2008 for Joachim Low's first tournament they still had Lehmann(was 38),Frings(was 32),Neuville(was 35),Klose(was 30),Enke(was 31),Ballack(was 31)

Even for this World Cup they were going in with a 33 year old Ballack as captain and a 32 year old Klose as their main striker.

All that has happend is that most of the more experienced players became too old(36+) and the newer generation happen to be better and more talented than everything else that's available.

Ballack and Klose are proof that if there were more older players who were as good as the youngsters then they'd be in the squad,it just so happens Germany have/are producing a lot of young talent in recent years that are better than what they had,again which is not the case with England.

[Josedinho]

As mentioned before we were 2nd only to Germany at the last Euro u21 tournament and are U17 Euro Champions. If we're not producing youngsters then i fear for the rest of Europe. The players mentioned as being ready in 4 years are all good players and better than you give them credit for. They just need to play and develop.

[The Baron]

Lol we can all offer up an example in favour of our argument. ie Italy 2006.

No point picking anyone over 30 from here

Why not? Lampard at 36 may be too old but Gerrard for example will be just on the brink of 33/34 and in the shape he keeps himself in he'll certainly be playing an influential role at that stage. I also really like CBs between 30-35 as they just read the game better and dont ever panic.

Don't like this at all really. It's short term thinking. England should accept that the next 4 years or so will be a rebuilding period and they are going to be (or stay) shit for a while with the aim of success in 6-8 years.

Experience wins world cups though. Do we just write off 2014 then?

Yes, in the same way that the Germans had the guts to write off 2010. It's the only way to actually win one, one day.

[gatso]

so, was it all an overreaction? were we just beaten by one of the best international sides of recent years? germany v argentina looks to have put things into perspective imo, they were battered while we scored 2, hit the woodwork and just got caught out a few times chasing the game

[thetank]

so, was it all an overreaction? were we just beaten by one of the best international sides of recent years? germany v argentina looks to have put things into perspective imo, they were battered while we scored 2, hit the woodwork and just got caught out a few times chasing the game

Lets not forget exhibit A, scraping through the a group that you should have owned on paper. Ghana then Uruguay would have been your route to a semi with Holland if you could have scored more than 2 goals in 270 minutes against the USA, Algeria and Slovakia. (or was it Slovenia, I can't remember tbh)

[gatso]

I'm not saying we're great, just that we're not the shockingly bad team that the overreactionaments would suggest

[Longy]

Maybe it was the Argies we were overrating, possibly we changed our mind too soon when they were beating mediocre sides and forgot they had a madman for a manager. Who's tactical knowledge could be written on the back of a postage stamp.

Talented sure, a good team I am not so sure.

[thetank]

Maybe it was the Argies we were overrating, possibly we changed our mind too soon when they were beating mediocre sides and forgot they had a madman for a manager. Who's tactical knowledge could be written on the back of a postage stamp.

Talented sure, a good team I am not so sure.

I'm guilty of that. Was all ready for the Argies to go all the way and then joining a facebook campaign to detox Gazza and stick him in a suit before making him next England manager.

[boldie]

As the whole of England falls silent watching Germany storm through world cup, there is a little whisper in the background,

"Look Philip, we're going to win!".

[The Baron]

Apart from the formation one other major change is needed,and that is to have a "dog" in midfield.Not one midfielder that went to South Africa could tackle.Barry is not that player,neither is Carrick,Huddlestone never has been and never will be.Rodwell could be that player but needs time,he may well be too cultured too good a footballer to be limited to that role.

It needs someone who is an absolute terrier,who will never stop running and put their body on the line time and time again.If Hargreaves can regain fitness he would be ideal,if not the next best option would be Parker and then Cattermole.These two are not as great on the ball as they would be ideally but you need to have someone of that type in the side,what they lack for in talent they make up for in effort and in how much they disrupt and break up opposition attacks.It's the role that Makelele made famous and now every top side has one,Toure,Mascherano,Busquets,Gilberto Silva,Mikel,De Rossi,Diarra.

I have been saying exactly the same to friends. When Mourinho and Zidane rate your role like this, its hard to ignore how important you are:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/article385541.ece

This is what the England midfield really needed (although I know Barry goes a little way towards it)...

I've seen quotes from both Mascherano and Makelele really rating Hargreaves in this position even before most of England realised he was any good. We miss him terribly IMHO.