Prose from a Poshboy

[dr411]

i think everything can be put into 4 words

'don't tap the tank'

if anything your about to do/say has any chance of doing this. don't do it. plenty of time to talk about strategy and how sick or bad a cold 5bet was after the session

[JamesBee]

Hardly a Troll PJ, just observations from experience, take it on the chin and learn from what many on this thread are saying

The lets see where you are in 10 years comment was loltastic.

However, apart from that your post was just opinion and welcome, at least in my eyes.

maybe this is the attitude given too anyone new in their cash games, so unless you bow at their heels you are a troll lol

and ps: PJ your hollywood dwells are ridic

[PeeJay]

Hardly a Troll PJ, just observations from experience, take it on the chin and learn from what many on this thread are saying

Don't have an issue with anybody else's posts. Just your 'observations' and accusing me of being anything but professional when I have no idea who you are and you definitely don't know me well enough to come to that conclusion, especially since I wasn't even playing the 'big game' last year

[philthepower]

As a 12 year veteran of the Dealer's Choice games, (I take Zolof to treat my post-traumatic stress disorder), who has transferred to the hold-em cash games upon the death of DC, I thought I would post about my differing experiences of the two.

 The DC game was nearly always 5/5 and it played big, certain players would sit with a couple of bags, others £200, but it was quite conceivable to spin that £200 to £3000 on any given night. Like the hold em cash games now it was accused of being too cliquey, full of regs (which when you're playing very specialist games it would be by it's very nature) all chasing the same easy marks, but when I compare the two now I come to a few conclusions:

(a) ETIQUETTE. The general etiquette on the DC table was terrible. This is not an indictment of everyone who used to play it, there were some proper gents in that game (after all, I used to play) but the simmering feuds and petty arguments that punctuated most nights, would have shamed a Sicilian village. This extended to the newbies to DC, who god forbid, would have the temerity to win a hand, to be congratulated with a " What the f*** did you think I had you f***ing moron! I can't play against idiots, you realise you only had 3 f***ing outs! " This would then extend to:

(b) DEALER ABUSE. Once the wronged party had exhausted all avenues of blame, (apart from themselves of course), they would then vent their fury at the dealer, after all it was THEY that had shuffled, cut and meted out this terrible injustice. It was now only just that they should suffer a foul mouthed tirade of abuse. I have seen dealer's in tears, profoundly embarassed and seething inside and this baptism of fire had obviously become notorious, because rookie dealers would come to the table shaking like a leaf, looking like they'd rather be dealing a 50/1 at Gala and wishing they had a Kevlar waistcoat.

(c) CHEATING/COLLUSION. When I first started playing cheating was rife, from stacked decks to palmed cards (yes, it doesn't just happen in the westerns) Player A would raise to 50, I'd call light (somethings never change), Player B makes it 250, Player A re-pops to 650 and they'd chop it up in the car park.

All of this would make for a terrible game you might think and would explain why it died, but I can promise you that for 10 years it was a very good game and had lots of newbies, heavily bankrolled. Why? Well, it was fast, there was no 5 minute dwelling on the river. If you lost it was quick and if you won it was big, it was not a slow drip-drip of methadone but an intravenous shot of morphine. New players would in part be attracted to the hostile atmosphere, stepping into the lion's den so as to "beat the bastards"

How do the above points apply to the hold 'em game?:

(a) ETIQUETTE. I've never heard anyone scream or angrily berate an opponent for bad play. Even when I've seen them dirted on the river for a big pot the most you'll get out of Mitch/Giblin/P.J./Sean/Stato is <SIGH>
I know Alex had his critics in the early days for his temperament but he's always been controlled since I've been back.
Which leads to point:

(b) DEALER ABUSE. Never seen it, possibly because some of them are ex-dealers but also because of their personailities-it's not in their nature.

(c) CHEATING/COLLUDING. I've heard it a few times "They chop it up in the car park" but trust me, from my early days at DC I know when people are colluding. These guys play as hard against each other as anyone else and you don't have to be a body language expert to know that when Alex ran Kings into P.J's Aces last week he wasn't getting any of it back in the car park.

When I returned to hold em a year ago, I did so knowing that I was rusty, I'd played Superstud, Hi-lo, Irish and Padooki (God Bless You Padooki) every weekend for 10 years; it was going to take time. The notion though that someone like Mitch would not 3/4/5 bet me in a spot that he would 95% of the time normally because he felt the need to soft-play me,fills me with horror. The only way to improve, the only way I honed my DC game is to play better players and it's no good if they're not playing their best game.

When I play Table Tennis at my club, I'll practise against players leagues above and I don't care if they smash me into oblivion, it's the only way I'll get better. This point was best illustrated when I played a guy 2 leagues below me (blatant brag that there are 2 leagues below me), he was playing really well and got 5 points ahead, but then he turned to me with a look of concern on his face and said "You're not taking it easy on me are you-some of the guys I've played in the higher leagues soft-played me and I HATE IT!"

In summary, I don't think it's fair to blame the regs for the shortage of newcomers to the 1/2 game. There's a recession on and that killed the DC, like Rob said there aren't many 1/2 or higher games outside of London. It's true people do find the 1/2 intimidating, but if the truth be told they're intimidated by the standard of the game. I've played all over the world and I don't think i've encountered a tougher 1/2 anywhere in terms of the level of play. Aside from this, I don't see why anyone should sit down with trepidation, there's no cheating, no colluding, no screaming, no criticism of bad play, no foul words spat in your face and no threats of violence.

If the truth be told though, I'd happily trade it all in for one last 4 Padooki morphine shot.

[JamesBee]

its a public forum , i can comment from as much knowledge i have regardless of whether you can't take criticism or not

[Mondeoman]

Also a lot of these posts imply that in other parts of the country the games are always running and are always good.  I was in London at the Vic recently on a Saturday night during the London GUKPT and they couldn't get a 2/5 game going.  I reckon you should seriously consider learning PLO properly, from my recent experience thats where a lot of fish would rather play.

[George2Loose]

I think what makes it trollish is hiding behind anonymity.

[PeeJay]

I think what makes it trollish is hiding behind anonymity.

This. How am I going to tell him where I am in 10 years time if he remains anonymous

[Honeybadger]

I am hating the fact that my post has led to some bitchy comments aimed at regs in the DTD game. In my experience, pretty much all the regs in that game are REALLY GOOD, NICE GUYS (I say 'pretty much all' rather than 'all' simply because I don't know some of them, e.g. PJ, and so can't judge). And I believe that they will all go on to become extremely successful and profitable poker professionals in the long-term, if that is what they choose to do. All this, 'see where you are in ten years time' stuff is just unnecessary and irrelevant. They'll still be here in ten years, making a ton of money, if they choose to continue on the same path.

I realise my post could be seen as 'unfair'. And I have, I am sure, over-stated many things and not made my points as subtly as I would have liked. But I wrote the post not as a criticism of the young players at DTD, who I happen to like immensely and think are/will be great ambassadors for poker. The reason I wrote it was because I feel there are certain aspects of being a poker player that many of them have not quite 'got' yet, and I wanted to point this out to them. If I have gone a little too far in some of the things that I have said then I hope this will be accepted and people will do what I asked right at the start of my post - read between the lines a little.

So many of the attitudes and characteristics displayed by the DTD regs (Alex, Mitch, Neil, James, Keith, Sean etc) are brilliant for poker! And a breathe of fresh air. The 'love the game' mentality that runs through almost everything they do in poker is something that I have never seen as strongly before in a group of players. It is a joy to behold. Plus they completely eschew all the short-sighted old-school nonsense that nauses any poker game; in particular the angles/stroke-pulling and the moaning/berating that were so prevalent when I first started playing. Their attitude is fantastic, and this is the main reason they are all going to succeed in the long-term.

[redsimon]

Not played much when PJ at table but can't remember hollywooding from him, small sample size obv.

[WotRTheChances]

its a public forum , i can comment from as much knowledge i have regardless of whether you can't take criticism or not

If I was questioning someone's professionalism in something someone makes a living from, I'd want to be pretty well informed before making allegations on a public forum. So either you are ill-informed, or you are just lying. Either way, your post is massively out of line. I'd understand if PJ was pretty pissed off about it. Seems reasonable to take a bit of time over a decision playing 1k+ deep, doesn't it? Fwiw he doesn't take any longer than avg in my experience, and we've played together for years!

[JamesBee]

Ive played with and met many people who post on here, and chosen not too post before, i don't see anonymity being a problem if you are gushing over each others plays, but i will log out and leave you all to pat each other's heads and wondering while people see the cliques as bad thing

being part of a group unable to accept outside observations of within is a massive sign of insecurity

good luck all

[Junior Senior]

As a 12 year veteran of the Dealer's Choice games, (I take Zolof to treat my post-traumatic stress disorder), who has transferred to the hold-em cash games upon the death of DC, I thought I would post about my differing experiences of the two.

 The DC game was nearly always 5/5 and it played big, certain players would sit with a couple of bags, others £200, but it was quite conceivable to spin that £200 to £3000 on any given night. Like the hold em cash games now it was accused of being too cliquey, full of regs (which when you're playing very specialist games it would be by it's very nature) all chasing the same easy marks, but when I compare the two now I come to a few conclusions:

(a) ETIQUETTE. The general etiquette on the DC table was terrible. This is not an indictment of everyone who used to play it, they were some proper gents in that game (after all, I used to play) but the simmering feuds and petty arguments that punctuated most nights, would have shamed a Sicilian village. This extended to the newbies to DC, who god forbid, would have the temerity to win a hand, to be congratulated with a " What the f*** did you think I had you f***ing moron! I can't play against idiots, you realise you only had 3 f***ing outs! " This would then extend to:

(b) DEALER ABUSE. Once the wronged party had exhausted all avenues of blame, (apart from themselves of course), they would then vent their fury at the dealer, after all it was THEY that had shuffled, cut and meted out this terrible injustice. It was now only just that they should suffer a foul mouthed tirade of abuse. I have seen dealer's in tears, profoundly embarassed and seething inside and this baptism of fire had obviously become notorious, because rookie dealers would come to the table shaking like a leaf, looking like they'd rather be dealing a 50/1 at Gala and wishing they had a Kevlar waistcoat.

(c) CHEATING/COLLUSION. When I first started playing cheating was rife, from stacked decks to palmed cards (yes, it doesn't just happen in the westerns) Player A would raise to 50, I'd call light (somethings never change), Player B makes it 250, Player A re-pops to 650 and they'd chop it up in the car park.

All of this would make for a terrible game you might think and would explain why it died, but I can promise you that for 10 years it was a very good game and had lots of newbies, heavily bankrolled. Why? Well, it was fast, there was no 5 minute dwelling on the river. If you lost it was quick and if you won it was big, it was not a slow drip-drip of methadone but an intravenous shot of morphine. New players would in part be attracted to the hostile atmosphere, stepping into the lion's den so as to "beat the bastards"

How do the above points apply to the hold 'em game?:

(a) ETIQUETTE. I've never heard anyone scream or angrily berate an opponent for bad play. Even when I've seen them dirted on the river for a big pot the most you'll get out of Mitch/Giblin/P.J./Sean/Stato is <SIGH>
I know Alex had his critics in the early days for his temperament but he's always been controlled since I've been back.
Which leads to point:

(b) DEALER ABUSE. Never seen it, possibly because some of them are ex-dealers but also because of their personailities-it's not in their nature.

(c) CHEATING/COLLUDING. I've heard it a few times "They chop it up in the car park" but trust me, from my early days at DC I know when people are colluding. These guys play as hard against each other as anyone else and you don't have to be a body language expert to know that when Alex rang Kings into P.J's Aces last week he wasn't getting any of it back in the car park.

When I returned to hold em a year ago, I did so knowing that I was rusty, I'd played Superstud, Hi-lo, Irish and Padooki (God Bless You Padooki) every weekend for 10 years; it was going to take time. The notion though that someone like Mitch would not 3/4/5 bet me in a spot that he would 95% of the time normally because he felt the need to soft-play me,fills me with horror. The only way to improve, the only way I honed my DC game is to play better players and it's no good if they're not playing their best game.

When I play Table Tennis at my club, I'll practise against players leagues above and I don't care if they smash me into oblivion, it's the only way I'll get better. This point was best illustrated when I played a guy 2 leagues below me (blatant brag that there are 2 leagues below me), he was playing really well and got 5 points ahead, but then he turned to me with a look of concern on his face and said "You're not taking it easy on me are you-some of the guys I've played in the higher leagues soft-played me and I HATE IT!"

In summary, I don't think it's fair to blame the regs for the shortage of newcomers to the 1/2 game. There's a recession on and that killed the DC, like Rob said there aren't many 1/2 or higher games outside of London. It's true people do find the 1/2 intimidating, but if the truth be told they're intimidated by the standard of the game. I've played all over the world and I don't think i've encountered a tougher 1/2 anywhere in terms of the level of play. Aside from this, I don't see why anyone should sit down with trepidation, there's no cheating, no colluding, no screaming, no criticism of bad play, no foul words spat in your face and no threats of violence.

If the truth be told though, I'd happily trade it all in for one last 4 Padooki morphine shot.

Most unlikely table tennis player ever? Had you more down as a subbuteo man

[redsimon]

great post by phil too, are you talking about DC @ dtd or include the Gala DC games that used to run ?

[Dubai]

Sorry to ruin the whole debate but something thats noone seems to have mentioned

What millionaire huge whale fish play 1-2 nl in Nottingham?

Answers on a postcard please lol



Theres probably no game because its 1-2 in the midlands during a recession. Its either too small for rich people or too big for poor people