Diary Of A Fenland Punterer

[tikay]

just to add some input of the 4 games yesterday........i rarely/never bet draws....but for some reason did 4 trebles and a roll up for a laugh.......fiver bet netted me £199    while in collecting a pal of mine came in to pick up £500  same 4 draws plus killie game from saturday    so can easily see how it would all add up with all being tight games and 3 derbies

Nice one!

Apparently, after Andy Gray suggested before the games began that all 4 might end up as draws, the money piled on, most of the volume in £5 & £10 bets.

Draws are usually good for the bookie, yesterday proved to be very much the exception.

You may recall the start of last year's World Cup was jam-packed with draws, & the volume of business was awesome. A lot of the high volume was because SB had run a promotion on World Cup betting, too, "money back on losing bets if England win" (outright markets only, I assume) & that attracted  lot of new Clients.

The SB&G offices were a very jolly place  last June!

When the Group beats it's weekly targets, they open the "Beer Fridge" on the Friday afternoon.  It was open a lot that month.

[Karabiner]

just to add some input of the 4 games yesterday........i rarely/never bet draws....but for some reason did 4 trebles and a roll up for a laugh.......fiver bet netted me £199    while in collecting a pal of mine came in to pick up £500  same 4 draws plus killie game from saturday    so can easily see how it would all add up with all being tight games and 3 derbies

Nice one!

Apparently, after Andy Gray suggested before the games began that all 4 might end up as draws, the money piled on, most of the volume in £5 & £10 bets.

Draws are usually good for the bookie, yesterday proved to be very much the exception.

You may recall the start of last year's World Cup was jam-packed with draws, & the volume of business was awesome. A lot of the high volume was because SB had run a promotion on World Cup betting, too, "money back on losing bets if England win" (outright markets only, I assume) & that attracted  lot of new Clients.

The SB&G offices were a very jolly place  last June!

When the Group beats it's weekly targets, they open the "Beer Fridge" on the Friday afternoon.  It was open a lot that month.

Half-way through the second half of the spuds v manure game which was the  last of yesterday's four Premiership matches Andy Gray mentioned in commentary that if anyone had bet on the four matches in an accumulator to end up as draws they would have been getting c108/1 to their stake.

He did say that surely up and down the country somebody must have been on, however he did not say that he had suggested placing the accumulator before the games which he almost certainly would have done had that been the case, although I might well be mistaken.

I am now convinced that the four games ending up as draws was a bad result for some layers.

fmp.

[redarmi]

just to add some input of the 4 games yesterday........i rarely/never bet draws....but for some reason did 4 trebles and a roll up for a laugh.......fiver bet netted me £199    while in collecting a pal of mine came in to pick up £500  same 4 draws plus killie game from saturday    so can easily see how it would all add up with all being tight games and 3 derbies

Nice one!

Apparently, after Andy Gray suggested before the games began that all 4 might end up as draws, the money piled on, most of the volume in £5 & £10 bets.

Draws are usually good for the bookie, yesterday proved to be very much the exception.

You may recall the start of last year's World Cup was jam-packed with draws, & the volume of business was awesome. A lot of the high volume was because SB had run a promotion on World Cup betting, too, "money back on losing bets if England win" (outright markets only, I assume) & that attracted  lot of new Clients.

The SB&G offices were a very jolly place  last June!

When the Group beats it's weekly targets, they open the "Beer Fridge" on the Friday afternoon.  It was open a lot that month.

In my experience as a bookmaker whilst draws are a good result a lot of them rarely are.  In the same way that, for example, when laying American Football underdogs are normally good for bookies but when they all win there is normally a couple of punters that have them in accas etc.  On bookies PR men I can confirm that most of it is just hyperbole.  By way of example in the run up to the 2002 Superbowl I had one a load of interviews based aroun how muchg we were likely to take on the event and had decided that a good press release to put out would be that we would happily take a million dollar bet on the pointspread of the game and, it was dne with the intention that we would take such a bet if asked.  As soon as the divisional games were finished I was a part of the industry wide race to be the first to get a line up and opened Oakland -5 and a couple of other books went up around the same mark and the phone rang and it was a well known poker player (clue - he is very good at 2-7 and other lowball games) who was a regular (winning) punter and he said he had seen our pubilicity and how much could he have on the game at our opening number at which point I bottled it totally and offerred him $22k.  He took the Bucs getting the points and if memory serves me they won by about 30 points straight up!!!!

Slight side note but to a man almost all the very best sports bettors I have known have all been poker players too and good ones at that.

[Chompy]

Do you think 10/1 for Kauto to win the Gold Cup is valuuuuuuooooooooooo or do you think Kauto's time has passed.

It's an amazing price on the face of it Monda but I wouldn't touch it. Firstly, Imperial Commander is quality, and secondly this season's Hennessy was one of the strongest for a long time. That race is going to dominate a lot of Festival races this spring.
At the moment Nicholls is planning on keeping Kauto going next season after he goes direct to Cheltenham in March. And I'm worried for the horse.
Fair point Nicholls, Kauto is only 11, not 13, but it's more about how many miles they have on the clock, especially at the top level. Most of Kauto's 36 races have come at the top and he's had some proper scraps lately. Then, from out of the blue, he bleeds after the King George.
Horses that suddenly bleed once are very likely to do it again in my experience, especially in a race like the Gold Cup where they're flat out from so early. If he bursts a blood vessel during the race, smacks a fence and hurts himself, Clive Smith will be sick. If I owned him I would retire him right now. Today.
None of us wants to see Kauto still running when on the downgrade. Champions should go out at the top. If I do anything at Cheltenham, it'll be place laying him. Sad as that is.

[Chompy]

Interesting that redarmi, the whole sports bettor-poker crossover. Would think there are more other sports bettors playing poker at a decent level than horsey punters. I know a few guys from racing that play poker, but they only really dabble. Racing and poker isn't a natural mix, although you'd think it probably should be.

[mondatoo]

Do you think 10/1 for Kauto to win the Gold Cup is valuuuuuuooooooooooo or do you think Kauto's time has passed.

It's an amazing price on the face of it Monda but I wouldn't touch it. Firstly, Imperial Commander is quality, and secondly this season's Hennessy was one of the strongest for a long time. That race is going to dominate a lot of Festival races this spring.
At the moment Nicholls is planning on keeping Kauto going next season after he goes direct to Cheltenham in March. And I'm worried for the horse.
Fair point Nicholls, Kauto is only 11, not 13, but it's more about how many miles they have on the clock, especially at the top level. Most of Kauto's 36 races have come at the top and he's had some proper scraps lately. Then, from out of the blue, he bleeds after the King George.
Horses that suddenly bleed once are very likely to do it again in my experience, especially in a race like the Gold Cup where they're flat out from so early. If he bursts a blood vessel during the race, smacks a fence and hurts himself, Clive Smith will be sick. If I owned him I would retire him right now. Today.
None of us wants to see Kauto still running when on the downgrade. Champions should go out at the top. If I do anything at Cheltenham, it'll be place laying him. Sad as that is.

My only positive thought was I think Ruby could make a big difference but possibly I'm overstating that as I don't know much about horse racing tbh.Thanks for the detailed response and I definitely agree about retirement,obv Sea of the Stars was an incred horse but surely Kauto would go into stud and be worth a lot or am I missing something ?

[Pelham Boy]

Do you think 10/1 for Kauto to win the Gold Cup is valuuuuuuooooooooooo or do you think Kauto's time has passed.

It's an amazing price on the face of it Monda but I wouldn't touch it. Firstly, Imperial Commander is quality, and secondly this season's Hennessy was one of the strongest for a long time. That race is going to dominate a lot of Festival races this spring.
At the moment Nicholls is planning on keeping Kauto going next season after he goes direct to Cheltenham in March. And I'm worried for the horse.
Fair point Nicholls, Kauto is only 11, not 13, but it's more about how many miles they have on the clock, especially at the top level. Most of Kauto's 36 races have come at the top and he's had some proper scraps lately. Then, from out of the blue, he bleeds after the King George.
Horses that suddenly bleed once are very likely to do it again in my experience, especially in a race like the Gold Cup where they're flat out from so early. If he bursts a blood vessel during the race, smacks a fence and hurts himself, Clive Smith will be sick. If I owned him I would retire him right now. Today.
None of us wants to see Kauto still running when on the downgrade. Champions should go out at the top. If I do anything at Cheltenham, it'll be place laying him. Sad as that is.

Really? Why do you think that? Pandorama is the only horse to come out of the race and win.

[Chompy]

Do you think 10/1 for Kauto to win the Gold Cup is valuuuuuuooooooooooo or do you think Kauto's time has passed.

It's an amazing price on the face of it Monda but I wouldn't touch it. Firstly, Imperial Commander is quality, and secondly this season's Hennessy was one of the strongest for a long time. That race is going to dominate a lot of Festival races this spring.
At the moment Nicholls is planning on keeping Kauto going next season after he goes direct to Cheltenham in March. And I'm worried for the horse.
Fair point Nicholls, Kauto is only 11, not 13, but it's more about how many miles they have on the clock, especially at the top level. Most of Kauto's 36 races have come at the top and he's had some proper scraps lately. Then, from out of the blue, he bleeds after the King George.
Horses that suddenly bleed once are very likely to do it again in my experience, especially in a race like the Gold Cup where they're flat out from so early. If he bursts a blood vessel during the race, smacks a fence and hurts himself, Clive Smith will be sick. If I owned him I would retire him right now. Today.
None of us wants to see Kauto still running when on the downgrade. Champions should go out at the top. If I do anything at Cheltenham, it'll be place laying him. Sad as that is.

My only positive thought was I think Ruby could make a big difference but possibly I'm overstating that as I don't know much about horse racing tbh.Thanks for the detailed response and I definitely agree about retirement,obv Sea of the Stars was an incred horse but surely Kauto would go into stud and be worth a lot or am I missing something ?

LOLZ, yep, you are missing something, and so is Kauto! You don't see any entires jumping fences, as there's a good chance the fences would save the cost of a gelding operation.
Old chasers usually just get retired to their owner's farm/field or what not. And then wheeled out once or twice a year for a procession before the King George and Gold Cup.

[mondatoo]

Oh... I see lol 

How big a difference would you say a change of jockey makes ?

[Chompy]

None of the principals from the Hennessy has run since Pellers. I was referring to the first three really and, in particular, Diamond Harry. He is the future of staying chases imo.

Oh... I see lol 

How big a difference would you say a change of jockey makes ?

Not a lot when it's McCoy taking over from Walsh. Don't buy this whole argument that certain styles are better suited to certain horses over jumps. The best jockeys are the best jockeys.

[Pelham Boy]

Isn't Burton Port out for the season?

[Chompy]

Isn't Burton Port out for the season?

Believe so. Only just turned seven though, so plenty of time.

[The Camel]

Do you think 10/1 for Kauto to win the Gold Cup is valuuuuuuooooooooooo or do you think Kauto's time has passed.

It's an amazing price on the face of it Monda but I wouldn't touch it. Firstly, Imperial Commander is quality, and secondly this season's Hennessy was one of the strongest for a long time. That race is going to dominate a lot of Festival races this spring.
At the moment Nicholls is planning on keeping Kauto going next season after he goes direct to Cheltenham in March. And I'm worried for the horse.
Fair point Nicholls, Kauto is only 11, not 13, but it's more about how many miles they have on the clock, especially at the top level. Most of Kauto's 36 races have come at the top and he's had some proper scraps lately. Then, from out of the blue, he bleeds after the King George.
Horses that suddenly bleed once are very likely to do it again in my experience, especially in a race like the Gold Cup where they're flat out from so early. If he bursts a blood vessel during the race, smacks a fence and hurts himself, Clive Smith will be sick. If I owned him I would retire him right now. Today.
None of us wants to see Kauto still running when on the downgrade. Champions should go out at the top. If I do anything at Cheltenham, it'll be place laying him. Sad as that is.

My only positive thought was I think Ruby could make a big difference but possibly I'm overstating that as I don't know much about horse racing tbh.Thanks for the detailed response and I definitely agree about retirement,obv Sea of the Stars was an incred horse but surely Kauto would go into stud and be worth a lot or am I missing something ?

LOLZ, yep, you are missing something, and so is Kauto! You don't see any entires jumping fences, as there's a good chance the fences would save the cost of a gelding operation.
Old chasers usually just get retired to their owner's farm/field or what not. And then wheeled out once or twice a year for a procession before the King George and Gold Cup.

While Kauto obviously owes Smith and Nicholls nothing, they still owe the horse plenty.

A steeplechaser just turned 11 who is perfectly fit should still be racing, the horse will expect to race and obviously loves racing.

Whether going for the Gold Cup is the right option is the only question they should be considering.

I'd avoid Cheltenham altogther and keep him fresh for the 2 1/2miler at Aintree. He's always been better on a flat track.

[tikay]

just to add some input of the 4 games yesterday........i rarely/never bet draws....but for some reason did 4 trebles and a roll up for a laugh.......fiver bet netted me £199    while in collecting a pal of mine came in to pick up £500  same 4 draws plus killie game from saturday    so can easily see how it would all add up with all being tight games and 3 derbies

Nice one!

Apparently, after Andy Gray suggested before the games began that all 4 might end up as draws, the money piled on, most of the volume in £5 & £10 bets.

Draws are usually good for the bookie, yesterday proved to be very much the exception.

You may recall the start of last year's World Cup was jam-packed with draws, & the volume of business was awesome. A lot of the high volume was because SB had run a promotion on World Cup betting, too, "money back on losing bets if England win" (outright markets only, I assume) & that attracted  lot of new Clients.

The SB&G offices were a very jolly place  last June!

When the Group beats it's weekly targets, they open the "Beer Fridge" on the Friday afternoon.  It was open a lot that month.

Half-way through the second half of the spuds v manure game which was the  last of yesterday's four Premiership matches Andy Gray mentioned in commentary that if anyone had bet on the four matches in an accumulator to end up as draws they would have been getting c108/1 to their stake.

He did say that surely up and down the country somebody must have been on, however he did not say that he had suggested placing the accumulator before the games which he almost certainly would have done had that been the case, although I might well be mistaken.

I am now convinced that the four games ending up as draws was a bad result for some layers.

fmp.

Yes, I'm sure the Andy Gray story was puff, & part of typical bookie hype. "Bookies stand to lose £1 million on White Christmas" or "£250 milion on Grand National" etc is something few of us take at face value. It gets on the font page of The Sun, though, & gets picked up by SEO, & that's the whole idea.

But the 4 draws, well, as any punter would know, that would normally be a bookies bonanza. Maybe Sky Bet got the prices all wrong, I don't know, but they lost a good few bob. I'm quite sure the other bookies all did well, though.

That was part of the reason for Posting what I thought was an amazing story. 4 draws on the bounce should be Christmas Day for the bookies. The fact it was not for Sky Bet was, I thought, worth a Post.

But it was only part of the reason I Posted the tale......

[Graham C]

What types of bets don't bookies like, apart from winning ones of course?