Manchester United, that didn't last long. Seven up

[Tal]

100% level.

No football fan on this planet can claim Maureen to be the superior manager over Pep.

Anyone who uses the excuse that Pep has spent £X is talking out their arse.

Oh stop being so melodramatic! It's not like I've said my favourite flavour of monster munch is roast beef! They're both good managers and coaches. Some people believe one is better; others the other.

As for who I'd want at spurs, it's tough because both build teams up and then leave. If Jose can persuade Bale to come back, he gets it.

If I were a mid table team fan, it'd be Jose in a heartbeat.

Thus is the Man United thread. Think it's ok to express a view that their manager is better than another team's.

Roast Beef fan here

I'm even breaking this one out:



We're trying to have an adult conversation here, Marky. You can't come steaming in with absurdities or you'll turn people off the forum. What do you think this is? Some form of facility for people to express genuinely held but differing views on a range of subjects?



https://sabotagetimes.com/.amp/life/pickled-onion-monster-munch-an-appreciation

[Marky147]

[Karabiner]

Unacceptable that I am unable to isolate the gif but it's the thought that counts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_wkO4hk07o

[MANTIS01]

Obv both are the genuine article and their trophy cabinets prove that. I think pep is ahead in player improvement because Jose tends to freeze out those he doesn't fancy, I mean surely he could do something with Luke Shaw about now. That said Mourinho is light years ahead of Benitez in terms of player development and management. As far as I remember Jose won the treble with Inter and the fat Spanish waiter very easily and very seamlessly turned them into dog-shit overnight.

[MANTIS01]

Oh and pickled onion smacks roast beef. I do believe that is a fact.

[Marky147]

Can't stand them.

[Archer]

I'm genuinely shocked that anyone would think that Jose would be a better option than Pep for any club. The argument that Pep has never done it at a smaller club is moot because he's never had a chance - and never will. What he has done is elevate every single big club he's been at to be the most successful they have ever been - see the winning runs each has racked up - playing a style of football that is the envy of every other club.

Whilst he's been successful, of the club's he's been at Jose has only really elevated Porto. Potentially you could argue Chelsea but their budget was so far beyond the rest of the league in that period that it would have been a failure if he'd not won the league. Indeed, whilst he's won trophies, he's also alienated players, staff and fans and generally has always left his clubs on a sore note.

No brainer for me.

With city's budget and squad could the same be said?  I think it would have been failure if city never won the league this season

The net spend for Chelsea in the 3 seasons 2003-2005 was c£300 million. United, Arsenal and Liverpool had a combined net spend of c£90mill  over the same period so an avg of £30mill each.

Following a renewed period of heavy spending, City have spent about £340mill net  over the last 3 seasons 2015-2017. Allowing for transfer fee inflation the City spend is no where near as significant as peak Abramovich. This is not to say we don't have a huge competitive advantage now, we clearly do, but United and others have spent shed loads as well. That wasn't the case back in 2003-2005.

City were a 7/4 favourite pre-season. Can a 7/4 shot not coming in be really deemed as failure? I don't think so but it would be a failure if there wasn't a serious challenge for the title and Champions League.

[Archer]

I'm sure there's some tongues in cheek here, but I'd have Jose a long way above Pep.

Pep is the one of the two who needs a bottomless budget or a squad that's already assembled for him.

Find it hard to understand the rationale for those choosing Pep over Jose.

Of course you understand the rationale. Nice wind-up Tal in this post and your follow ups 

[Cf]

Mourinho effectively saying that he cannot be effective as a manager unless he has the biggest budget.  If you have 2nd biggest budget then Mourinho is saying he is a poor candidate for the job.

Rafa Benitez, who is inexplicably adored by Newcastle fans

Wtf kind of comment is this.

One of the top managers in the world comes in to try and save us from relegation and then stays with us in the championship to get us back up.

He's been constantly messed around by Ashley (we have a negative net transfer spend since Rafa has been here) and yet still sticks with the club. And it's strongly suspected he has been quite pivotal in making this takeover happen (assuming it does).

He owed and owes us nothing. Yet here he is doing his best to make NUFC into something big.

And you say "inexplicably adored by"? Ffs.

Also I'd be very interested in how Mourinho, Guardiola et al were to do in similar circumstances of championship squad with no funds to back them. All undoubtedly good managers but I can't see any of them doing what Rafa has done for NUFC. Strong chance we remain a mid table championship team existing only to advertise sports direct without him.

[TightEnd]

Jose:

"Lots of credit to Man City but Pep arrived.

Has England keeper. Doesn’t like.
Buys the Barca keeper. Doesn’t like.
Buys another one.
Has Zabaleta + Kolarov. Replaces them with 3; from Tottenham, Monaco + Real.
Can we buy 6/7 players at same time + invest £600m/£700m? No"

[TightEnd]

Jamie Carragher column: Why I believe United would win title if Pep was in charge instead of Jose

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/12/29/jose-mourinho-sounds-like-broken-record-pep-guardiola-man/

[DungBeetle]

Jose:

"Lots of credit to Man City but Pep arrived.

Has England keeper. Doesn’t like.
Buys the Barca keeper. Doesn’t like.
Buys another one.
Has Zabaleta + Kolarov. Replaces them with 3; from Tottenham, Monaco + Real.
Can we buy 6/7 players at same time + invest £600m/£700m? No"

Did Bravo, Ederson, Mendy, Walker and Danilo cost 600m?  No, they cost pretty much the same as Lukaku and Lindelöf.  The man is an utter uttter cretinZ

[Archer]

Jamie Carragher column: Why I believe United would win title if Pep was in charge instead of Jose

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/12/29/jose-mourinho-sounds-like-broken-record-pep-guardiola-man/

I enjoyed that as well. Hard to disagree with Carragher . IMO of course...

[Archer]

Jose:

"Lots of credit to Man City but Pep arrived.

Has England keeper. Doesn’t like.
Buys the Barca keeper. Doesn’t like.
Buys another one.
Has Zabaleta + Kolarov. Replaces them with 3; from Tottenham, Monaco + Real.
Can we buy 6/7 players at same time + invest £600m/£700m? No"

Did Bravo, Ederson, Mendy, Walker and Danilo cost 600m?  No, they cost pretty much the same as Lukaku and Lindelöf.  The man is an utter uttter cretinZ

Well, you predicted earlier in the thread he would blow a gasket over van dijk

It's been a bad month for Jose and he seems to be getting hammered now everywhere. Difficult times for him and the Champions League will be huge for him.

Increased worries about the Premier League as well because whilst the actual points total so far is the highest since Ferguson the underlying numbers aren't great and there has been a big drop off since early season. Opponents have had the best of it in xG terms in 8 of the 20 games. Granted some only marginal but the numbers,  game by game,  are for worse than the other big teams. Here is a chart comparing with City:

Click to see full-size image.

[RobS]

Another Mourinho masterclass.

Give him a new contract please.