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Author Topic: Manchester United, that didn't last long. Seven up  (Read 484630 times)
outragous76
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« Reply #1110 on: January 27, 2013, 05:17:22 PM »

I mean Oldham is technically Manchester!   Grin
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Ant040689
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« Reply #1111 on: January 28, 2013, 08:47:36 AM »

I'm a United fan but imo the deal Palace have got for Zaha is brilliant business, £10m upfront for potential with £5 extra in add-ons.... he's scored 14 goals in 78 games in the last 2 seasons which given he's described as a winger/striker seems pretty low productivity wise? He may improve etc but it's a hefty upfront fee. As a comparion, the lad Countinho who Liverpool have just signed is costing £8.5m, bought from Inter with more proven pedigree (scored 5 in 16 from midfield for Espanyol in La Liga, a team who were battling relegation)

I have likened him to a young Christiano Ronaldo, in his flair. His finishing is woeful and if it was at just an average level he would have so many more goals. His final ball for assisting too, needs more work. However, I haven't seen anyone like him, at full pelt, get past players with as much ease as he does and that is what Ferguson sees in him and that is why he is forking out that much.

I think you have a fair deal at the very least on your hands, and should you take the fact, that you are paying so much for a 20 year old, means that his potential can be enriched at one of the best clubs in the world, to a level of being world class.

I am gutted to see him go and can't see him ever failing at Man U. He is so young and if he develops a final ball and finish, then it's just not right what he could go on to achieve. Consider too his flair and strength should get better in time too, scary.
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david3103
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« Reply #1112 on: January 28, 2013, 08:53:55 AM »

I'm a United fan but imo the deal Palace have got for Zaha is brilliant business, £10m upfront for potential with £5 extra in add-ons.... he's scored 14 goals in 78 games in the last 2 seasons which given he's described as a winger/striker seems pretty low productivity wise? He may improve etc but it's a hefty upfront fee. As a comparion, the lad Countinho who Liverpool have just signed is costing £8.5m, bought from Inter with more proven pedigree (scored 5 in 16 from midfield for Espanyol in La Liga, a team who were battling relegation)

I have likened him to a young Christiano Ronaldo, in his flair. His finishing is woeful and if it was at just an average level he would have so many more goals. His final ball for assisting too, needs more work. However, I haven't seen anyone like him, at full pelt, get past players with as much ease as he does and that is what Ferguson sees in him and that is why he is forking out that much.

I think you have a fair deal at the very least on your hands, and should you take the fact, that you are paying so much for a 20 year old, means that his potential can be enriched at one of the best clubs in the world, to a level of being world class.

I am gutted to see him go and can't see him ever failing at Man U. He is so young and if he develops a final ball and finish, then it's just not right what he could go on to achieve. Consider too his flair and strength should get better in time too, scary.

hmmm there's a pretty long list of players who didn't 'train on' at Old Trafford. Ronaldo is almost an exception...

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« Reply #1113 on: January 28, 2013, 06:16:08 PM »

Casillas, Buffon, Reina, cech, hart, Neuer to name but a few. World beaters from very early on.

There's an even longer list of keepers who came into their prime later in life, if you picked out the above names (and I don't agree with them all), then you clearly don't need me to type them all.

Of course keepers peak later - that wasn't the argument. The point is in the modern game that the best rarely become great later if they weren't already excellent by the early/mid 20's.

You cant change the criteria to "peaked later" half way through an argument to suit.
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jackinbeat
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« Reply #1114 on: January 28, 2013, 11:20:02 PM »

Casillas, Buffon, Reina, cech, hart, Neuer to name but a few. World beaters from very early on.

There's an even longer list of keepers who came into their prime later in life, if you picked out the above names (and I don't agree with them all), then you clearly don't need me to type them all.

Of course keepers peak later - that wasn't the argument. The point is in the modern game that the best rarely become great later if they weren't already excellent by the early/mid 20's.

You cant change the criteria to "peaked later" half way through an argument to suit.

I'm hardly changing my argument, peak, become great, already one of the top keeps in the world in some departments, however you want to try and win this argument, you can't, as I said look at all keepers, the greats made mistakes, and as for not ever being great, have you actually seen anything but those sad little videos made by bindippers who have very little to say now they've been made to eat all the words the used to brag with in the 80's. Pointless to argue with you when the blinkers are so clearly fixed on,,
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david3103
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« Reply #1115 on: January 28, 2013, 11:36:30 PM »

Casillas, Buffon, Reina, cech, hart, Neuer to name but a few. World beaters from very early on.

There's an even longer list of keepers who came into their prime later in life, if you picked out the above names (and I don't agree with them all), then you clearly don't need me to type them all.

Of course keepers peak later - that wasn't the argument. The point is in the modern game that the best rarely become great later if they weren't already excellent by the early/mid 20's.

You cant change the criteria to "peaked later" half way through an argument to suit.

I'm hardly changing my argument, peak, become great, already one of the top keeps in the world in some departments, however you want to try and win this argument, you can't, as I said look at all keepers, the greats made mistakes, and as for not ever being great, have you actually seen anything but those sad little videos made by bindippers who have very little to say now they've been made to eat all the words the used to brag with in the 80's. Pointless to argue with you when the blinkers are so clearly fixed on,,

Keepers who were ridiculously good in their 20s include Mervin Day, Ben Foster, Chris Wood(s?), the aussie one we bought who got above himself whose name escapes me, Taibi (oh how I wish I could forget him)
De Gea is already a pretty good keeper and is only just 22 yrs old.

Can we return to this debate in May 2014?? Make a note in our diaries?
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paulhouk03
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« Reply #1116 on: January 28, 2013, 11:41:32 PM »

bosnich?
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david3103
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« Reply #1117 on: January 29, 2013, 07:10:37 AM »

bosnich?

of course

age affected memory failure or comedic device? you decide :-)
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The Baron
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« Reply #1118 on: January 30, 2013, 09:21:20 PM »

Casillas, Buffon, Reina, cech, hart, Neuer to name but a few. World beaters from very early on.

There's an even longer list of keepers who came into their prime later in life, if you picked out the above names (and I don't agree with them all), then you clearly don't need me to type them all.

Of course keepers peak later - that wasn't the argument. The point is in the modern game that the best rarely become great later if they weren't already excellent by the early/mid 20's.

You cant change the criteria to "peaked later" half way through an argument to suit.

I'm hardly changing my argument, peak, become great, already one of the top keeps in the world in some departments, however you want to try and win this argument, you can't, as I said look at all keepers, the greats made mistakes, and as for not ever being great, have you actually seen anything but those sad little videos made by bindippers who have very little to say now they've been made to eat all the words the used to brag with in the 80's. Pointless to argue with you when the blinkers are so clearly fixed on,,

No, you are I'm afraid. He's not a "great" keeper. He's good. One of the better ones in the league. But never, ever great.

Perhaps our definitions of "great" are miles apart.
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The Baron
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« Reply #1119 on: January 30, 2013, 09:22:24 PM »

Casillas, Buffon, Reina, cech, hart, Neuer to name but a few. World beaters from very early on.

There's an even longer list of keepers who came into their prime later in life, if you picked out the above names (and I don't agree with them all), then you clearly don't need me to type them all.

Of course keepers peak later - that wasn't the argument. The point is in the modern game that the best rarely become great later if they weren't already excellent by the early/mid 20's.

You cant change the criteria to "peaked later" half way through an argument to suit.

I'm hardly changing my argument, peak, become great, already one of the top keeps in the world in some departments, however you want to try and win this argument, you can't, as I said look at all keepers, the greats made mistakes, and as for not ever being great, have you actually seen anything but those sad little videos made by bindippers who have very little to say now they've been made to eat all the words the used to brag with in the 80's. Pointless to argue with you when the blinkers are so clearly fixed on,,

Keepers who were ridiculously good in their 20s include Mervin Day, Ben Foster, Chris Wood(s?), the aussie one we bought who got above himself whose name escapes me, Taibi (oh how I wish I could forget him)
De Gea is already a pretty good keeper and is only just 22 yrs old.

Can we return to this debate in May 2014?? Make a note in our diaries?


Fair enough looking at the other side of the coin. Plenty of Richard Wrights out there.
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jackinbeat
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« Reply #1120 on: January 30, 2013, 11:40:57 PM »

Casillas, Buffon, Reina, cech, hart, Neuer to name but a few. World beaters from very early on.

There's an even longer list of keepers who came into their prime later in life, if you picked out the above names (and I don't agree with them all), then you clearly don't need me to type them all.

Of course keepers peak later - that wasn't the argument. The point is in the modern game that the best rarely become great later if they weren't already excellent by the early/mid 20's.

You cant change the criteria to "peaked later" half way through an argument to suit.

I'm hardly changing my argument, peak, become great, already one of the top keeps in the world in some departments, however you want to try and win this argument, you can't, as I said look at all keepers, the greats made mistakes, and as for not ever being great, have you actually seen anything but those sad little videos made by bindippers who have very little to say now they've been made to eat all the words the used to brag with in the 80's. Pointless to argue with you when the blinkers are so clearly fixed on,,

No, you are I'm afraid. He's not a "great" keeper. He's good. One of the better ones in the league. But never, ever great.

Perhaps our definitions of "great" are miles apart.

Lol, what are you on about, he's a GREAT shot stopper, and has other attributes that suggest he will become world class, if he isn't already. Seeing as you now support a small club, i'ts clear you get a kick from trying to pick at others, whilst you have some knowledge that's clear, it's not clear whether that knowledge is actually based on any facts other than your growing bitterness to a team and sport that's sucker punched you, I'd guess you are not from Liverpool, and would possibly have become a |Liverpool fan in the 80's?
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david3103
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« Reply #1121 on: January 31, 2013, 08:09:57 AM »

he didn't strengthen our argument much last night...

#keepthefaith
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MANTIS01
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« Reply #1122 on: January 31, 2013, 08:58:24 AM »

De Gea with no conviction and just a little girlie skip as the ball goes past. He wants to be charging out and clattering somebody there.
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« Reply #1123 on: January 31, 2013, 09:14:44 AM »

He stays on his line and the angle Rodriguez had to score there was tight and it would have been very unlikely. Poor decision making.

Just looks like a Goalkeeper lacking a fight, complete opposite of the temperament needed as a keeper.
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david3103
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« Reply #1124 on: January 31, 2013, 09:42:21 AM »

De Gea with no conviction and just a little girlie skip as the ball goes past. He wants to be charging out and clattering somebody there.

Obviously clattering Rodrigues was an option, but that's a penalty and a red card...

He stays on his line and the angle Rodriguez had to score there was tight and it would have been very unlikely. Poor decision making.

Just looks like a Goalkeeper lacking a fight, complete opposite of the temperament needed as a keeper.

No defence in this instance - although coming for it and getting it, is the better option.

Doesn't help him to be behind a different central two again, and to then get that attempt at a back pass in the first few minutes of the game.

I'm still looking to close this debate some time next year
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