Sorel Mizzi Accused of Cheating at Chinese Poker during PCA

[GreekStein]

Woodsey - its very different having different ipoker accounts where its fair game and everyone knows you can have diff account names on different skins than deceiving regs etc on full tilt by doing something against t's and c's.

[Woodsey]

Woodsey - its very different having different ipoker accounts where its fair game and everyone knows you can have diff account names on different skins than deceiving regs etc on full tilt by doing something against t's and c's.

I know exactly what your saying mate. But my real point is there is different levels of cheating, playing with a fixed deck or dealing from the bottom or whatever I would put right at the top of the list of worst of the worst. Just because someone has MA I wouldn't automatically assume they had sunk to new depths of cheating like has been suggested.

Maybe he did it? Maybe not? Who knows? But to link one with the other is a pretty big jump imo.

[GreekStein]

Yeah I can't disagree with that woodrow wilson

[Doobs]

cliffs from before

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/poker/columns/story?columnist=wise_gary&id=5528193

interestingly Shaundeeb puts the boot in there.

sorel mizzi previous coming clean post

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/61/mtt-community/coming-clean-setting-record-straight-863952/

I had a quick look through and it appears throladean who allegedly had that conversation allegedly never posted to deny it

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/61/mtt-community/alleged-chatlog-between-sorel-thorladen-857685/

another thing about that thread is that waxonchris never posted again.

[smashedagain]

multi entry / multi accounting = similar thing

sure is!

and yeah Jason they are completely different not even remotley similar :p

i see them as similar because they give an advantage to those with a bigger roll over the average man. the skill level should be enough of an advantage without giving him multiple advantages in the wallet. whats the difference in a guy sitting as imperlumpum in 6 seats and having the chips combined to a single stack as the tables close and him sitting as Icheat, fuDave, h8rsh8, tellYaMammy and kissMyButt and doing the same thing...only reason i can see is coz you wont have the hand histories on your huds of all the aliases.  cheating has always gone on on the net and prob always will. some forms of cheating are legal. some forms are not

[dino1980]

This is just what I know of mizzi:

- was banned from ftp for buying an account of someone who was deep in a big tournament.

- a transcript of a conversation between him and another high stakes reg known as 'roman' on 2+2 was leaked. On it mizzi was looking for a backing partner for his idea. He explained this idea saying they would stake a large number of horses and then use software to oversee all of them at once, help make decisions and then take over (without needing to log in from a different machine and hence skipping ip traces) when individuals are deep.

- someone from ftp said that since mizzi was banned they still believed him to be playing on the site under other accounts and believe he even won an ftops.

- mizzi allegedly lost around 500k+ in private hu vs a guy who was cheating him. This was documented on 2+2 thread. (Whilst this doesn't implicate him, it was a bit of a shady game to be involved in).

- then there's this debacle and I even think there may be something else I'm forgetting.

Sorel and MattG1983 (Matt Graham - who later signed with UB!) had a dispute which i think occured before the buying of Chris Vaughns account. Essentially IIRC Sorel took over a mates account deep deep into WPT satellite on UB where there was one package and MattG finished second to this account that Sorel was now playing on.

[smashedagain]

This is just what I know of mizzi:

- was banned from ftp for buying an account of someone who was deep in a big tournament.

- a transcript of a conversation between him and another high stakes reg known as 'roman' on 2+2 was leaked. On it mizzi was looking for a backing partner for his idea. He explained this idea saying they would stake a large number of horses and then use software to oversee all of them at once, help make decisions and then take over (without needing to log in from a different machine and hence skipping ip traces) when individuals are deep.

- someone from ftp said that since mizzi was banned they still believed him to be playing on the site under other accounts and believe he even won an ftops.

- mizzi allegedly lost around 500k+ in private hu vs a guy who was cheating him. This was documented on 2+2 thread. (Whilst this doesn't implicate him, it was a bit of a shady game to be involved in).

- then there's this debacle and I even think there may be something else I'm forgetting.

Sorel and MattG1983 (Matt Graham - who later signed with UB!) had a dispute which i think occured before the buying of Chris Vaughns account. Essentially IIRC Sorel took over a mates account deep deep into WPT satellite on UB where there was one package and MattG finished second to this account that Sorel was now playing on.

wow. another nice prahlad type deal...ub bends you over then gives you the reach round. top guys top site

[RoyCropper]

I always wondered who the punters were who believed OJ was not guilty and thought it a good idea to
give Hindley and Sutcliffe another chance.
Looks like a fair few are poker players - get a grip.

[SuuPRlim]

multi entry / multi accounting = similar thing

sure is!

and yeah Jason they are completely different not even remotley similar :p

i see them as similar because they give an advantage to those with a bigger roll over the average man. the skill level should be enough of an advantage without giving him multiple advantages in the wallet. whats the difference in a guy sitting as imperlumpum in 6 seats and having the chips combined to a single stack as the tables close and him sitting as Icheat, fuDave, h8rsh8, tellYaMammy and kissMyButt and doing the same thing...only reason i can see is coz you wont have the hand histories on your huds of all the aliases.  cheating has always gone on on the net and prob always will. some forms of cheating are legal. some forms are not

it's pretty common for people with more money to have an advantage. Whereas multi entering a tourney does give you hightened chance of winning the tourney, it also penalises you financially, you dont actually gain a $ev edge over any opponent that you wouldn't have had anyways

now, supose we're playing HU cash and I've played tons with you we know all about each others games now one day you show up on an account that I have no idea  who it is. The advantage you'll have over me (at least for the first 200-300 hands) will be so large ots puts me into a positions where Im pretty unlikely to be able to win without getting extremely lucky.

How anyone doesn't think that is basically stealing is beyond me

[Royal Flush]

Throw in the fact you can have 2 stacks on the same table...

[jakally]

The situations where he may have been multi-accounting in the same tourney (if that did ever happen), are clearly wrong / cheating, and there is no defence for it.

If he did open up to 6 accounts, with the intention, or the result, that he gained an unfair edge over other players, then ditto.

However, opening up a new account just to carry on playing on FTP, after your previous one was banned, possibly unfairly / harshly given the offence committed, and the probability that lots of others have committed the same offence, but without the same penalty, is in a different category.
Although this gives him an advantage in the short term, the account gets opened not with the express intention of deception, but just to stay in the game.
It's still wrong, but I could see myself considering doing this, if it was my only source of income.

The point I am trying to make is that you can't lump it all together and say 'cheater' - it's a bit too lazy - each offence needs to be considered on it's own merits.

[cambridgealex]

The situations where he may have been multi-accounting in the same tourney (if that did ever happen), are clearly wrong / cheating, and there is no defence for it.

If he did open up to 6 accounts, with the intention, or the result, that he gained an unfair edge over other players, then ditto.

However, opening up a new account just to carry on playing on FTP, after your previous one was banned, possibly unfairly / harshly given the offence committed, and the probability that lots of others have committed the same offence, but without the same penalty, is in a different category.
Although this gives him an advantage in the short term, the account gets opened not with the express intention of deception, but just to stay in the game.
It's still wrong, but I could see myself considering doing this, if it was my only source of income.

The point I am trying to make is that you can't lump it all together and say 'cheater' - it's a bit too lazy - each offence needs to be considered on it's own merits.

+1

[SuuPRlim]

However, opening up a new account just to carry on playing on FTP, after your previous one was banned, possibly unfairly / harshly given the offence committed, and the probability that lots of others have committed the same offence, but without the same penalty, is in a different category.
Although this gives him an advantage in the short term, the account gets opened not with the express intention of deception, but just to stay in the game.
It's still wrong, but I could see myself considering doing this, if it was my only source of income.

Seriously? Not with intent to deceive? Opening an account at a site where you're banned from playing, to play vs people you have tons of history with under a SN they wont recognize? Sounds very deceptive to me....

Lots of people who dont play poker on the internet seriously mis understand how big an advantage you gain from playing in your reg games under an diff account. Its so huge and in the short term especially can cost thousands and thousands.

To put it into live poker context...

You're playing at DTD and the board is  after you've opened the button and Jason Herbert c/raises...seems like a decent spot to fold the  to me.

Now lets say this wasn't jason herbert, but Tom Middleton in a Jason Herbert costume...................

[SuuPRlim]

Woodsey - its very different having different ipoker accounts where its fair game and everyone knows you can have diff account names on different skins than deceiving regs etc on full tilt by doing something against t's and c's.

I know exactly what your saying mate. But my real point is there is different levels of cheating, playing with a fixed deck or dealing from the bottom or whatever I would put right at the top of the list of worst of the worst. Just because someone has MA I wouldn't automatically assume they had sunk to new depths of cheating like has been suggested.

Maybe he did it? Maybe not? Who knows? But to link one with the other is a pretty big jump imo.

and yh sorry woodsey I agree they are different and we cant assume that because he committed offence a) he must have  committed offence b)

However I disagree that the two forms of cheating are in any way less serious. both intend to gain a long term financial advantage over another person using foul play, makes them exactly the same in my books.

[StuartHopkin]

However, opening up a new account just to carry on playing on FTP, after your previous one was banned, possibly unfairly / harshly given the offence committed, and the probability that lots of others have committed the same offence, but without the same penalty, is in a different category.
Although this gives him an advantage in the short term, the account gets opened not with the express intention of deception, but just to stay in the game.
It's still wrong, but I could see myself considering doing this, if it was my only source of income.

Seriously? Not with intent to deceive? Opening an account at a site where you're banned from playing, to play vs people you have tons of history with under a SN they wont recognize? Sounds very deceptive to me....

Lots of people who dont play poker on the internet seriously mis understand how big an advantage you gain from playing in your reg games under an diff account. Its so huge and in the short term especially can cost thousands and thousands.

To put it into live poker context...

You're playing at DTD and the board is  after you've opened the button and Jason Herbert c/raises...seems like a decent spot to fold the  to me.

Now lets say this wasn't jason herbert, but Tom Middleton in a Jason Herbert costume...................

Thanks for creating an epic scooby doo reveal moment in my head dave!