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Author Topic: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace  (Read 52074 times)
horseplayer
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« Reply #120 on: March 17, 2013, 03:30:56 PM »

twenty pounds for a book?

hardly a lot is it?

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kinboshi
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« Reply #121 on: March 17, 2013, 03:33:24 PM »

John, who are you and what is your agenda here? 

Your analysis of the reviews and feedback this book has had is far more involved than that of someone with a passing interest in the book.

For what it's worth, I bought the book when it was released in kindle format, and thought it was OK.  I didn't feel I learnt a lot from it, but maybe one or two things were helpful, and that's usually the same with every poker book I've read.  However, these one or two things can make a big difference over the long-term though and so I'd view it as value for money.  I also couldn't give a toss what the reviews on Amazon say, as I've already bought the book - as you have.  I'd prefer to make my own mind up and worry far less about the reviews on Amazon and their legitimacy.

If you have an axe to grind, and you're questioning the integrity of Jared and Barry, then full disclosure from you would probably be sensible.
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« Reply #122 on: March 17, 2013, 03:38:51 PM »

John, who are you and what is your agenda here? 

Your analysis of the reviews and feedback this book has had is far more involved than that of someone with a passing interest in the book.

For what it's worth, I bought the book when it was released in kindle format, and thought it was OK.  I didn't feel I learnt a lot from it, but maybe one or two things were helpful, and that's usually the same with every poker book I've read.  However, these one or two things can make a big difference over the long-term though and so I'd view it as value for money.  I also couldn't give a toss what the reviews on Amazon say, as I've already bought the book - as you haveI'd prefer to make my own mind up and worry far less about the reviews on Amazon and their legitimacy.

If you have an axe to grind, and you're questioning the integrity of Jared and Barry, then full disclosure from you would probably be sensible.


No - he said he was THINKING of buying it. (See John's first post).


I am thinking of buying this book on Amazon.com
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« Reply #123 on: March 17, 2013, 03:39:55 PM »

John, who are you and what is your agenda here? 

Your analysis of the reviews and feedback this book has had is far more involved than that of someone with a passing interest in the book.

For what it's worth, I bought the book when it was released in kindle format, and thought it was OK.  I didn't feel I learnt a lot from it, but maybe one or two things were helpful, and that's usually the same with every poker book I've read.  However, these one or two things can make a big difference over the long-term though and so I'd view it as value for money.  I also couldn't give a toss what the reviews on Amazon say, as I've already bought the book - as you have.  I'd prefer to make my own mind up and worry far less about the reviews on Amazon and their legitimacy.

If you have an axe to grind, and you're questioning the integrity of Jared and Barry, then full disclosure from you would probably be sensible.


 police   in da house
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« Reply #124 on: March 17, 2013, 03:41:24 PM »

John, who are you and what is your agenda here? 

Your analysis of the reviews and feedback this book has had is far more involved than that of someone with a passing interest in the book.

For what it's worth, I bought the book when it was released in kindle format, and thought it was OK.  I didn't feel I learnt a lot from it, but maybe one or two things were helpful, and that's usually the same with every poker book I've read.  However, these one or two things can make a big difference over the long-term though and so I'd view it as value for money.  I also couldn't give a toss what the reviews on Amazon say, as I've already bought the book - as you haveI'd prefer to make my own mind up and worry far less about the reviews on Amazon and their legitimacy.

If you have an axe to grind, and you're questioning the integrity of Jared and Barry, then full disclosure from you would probably be sensible.


No - he said he was THINKING of buying it. (See John's first post).


I am thinking of buying this book on Amazon.com

Ah, I misinterpreted: "I have had a look through all of the pages" - he meant all the reviews on Amazon.  I think I'd rather invest £20 than spend my time going through all the reviews on Amazon.
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« Reply #125 on: March 17, 2013, 03:42:50 PM »

John, who are you and what is your agenda here? 

Your analysis of the reviews and feedback this book has had is far more involved than that of someone with a passing interest in the book.

For what it's worth, I bought the book when it was released in kindle format, and thought it was OK.  I didn't feel I learnt a lot from it, but maybe one or two things were helpful, and that's usually the same with every poker book I've read.  However, these one or two things can make a big difference over the long-term though and so I'd view it as value for money.  I also couldn't give a toss what the reviews on Amazon say, as I've already bought the book - as you haveI'd prefer to make my own mind up and worry far less about the reviews on Amazon and their legitimacy.

If you have an axe to grind, and you're questioning the integrity of Jared and Barry, then full disclosure from you would probably be sensible.


No - he said he was THINKING of buying it. (See John's first post).


I am thinking of buying this book on Amazon.com

Ahh, I got confused. He also said.......


I am makin my way through the book, a lot of interesting points about learning in it. I can feel my inner inchworm growing...

I have some queries about certain aspects of the book, and its approach


So maybe he made a mistake in his first Post here.
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« Reply #126 on: March 17, 2013, 03:51:45 PM »

John, who are you and what is your agenda here? 

Your analysis of the reviews and feedback this book has had is far more involved than that of someone with a passing interest in the book.

For what it's worth, I bought the book when it was released in kindle format, and thought it was OK.  I didn't feel I learnt a lot from it, but maybe one or two things were helpful, and that's usually the same with every poker book I've read.  However, these one or two things can make a big difference over the long-term though and so I'd view it as value for money.  I also couldn't give a toss what the reviews on Amazon say, as I've already bought the book - as you have.  I'd prefer to make my own mind up and worry far less about the reviews on Amazon and their legitimacy.

If you have an axe to grind, and you're questioning the integrity of Jared and Barry, then full disclosure from you would probably be sensible.
I have no axe to grind and I have no agenda of any sort in this. I asked a very clear set of questions about the objectivity of the reviews on Amazon, they went unanswered, I was told that the Barry was honest (which I already believed), that the book was fantastic (which I am still trying to establish). The actual questions I raised, which were about objective facts available on Amazon, and which never once directly questioned the honesty of the authors, remained unaddressed, so I asked them again, in a way that could not be unaddressed. I never once made it an ad hominem attack but you seem to wish to turn it into that. I will not get involved in that type of discussion, I already stayed clear of it. All I did was point out what I saw. If there is a legitimate reason for the facts I observed (and i presented facts, not assumptions) then that will come out. I offered to retract, and the author insisted that what I was doing was in fact good for his publicity therefore i repeated what I had asked but in clearer and more specific terms. I am not an author and I would like very much to read a good book about this kind of thing as a lot of money is riding on whether or not he topic can be cracked, for anyone seeking to address it in their game. I have an intense, personal interest in the subject matter, apologies if this gave rise to probing questions on your forum. I'll make the next one about massaging my calf muscles. What do you want me to say? That I'm a poker author and I'm trying to bring down Tendler and Carter? My points would remain. You're a bright guy, do the reviews look legit to you? They matter to me, I actually do buy a lot on there based on reviews, as do many others.
I didn't buy the book, I am swithering about buying it so that I can more concretely pull sections from it that I want to address. I am making my way through it in audible format, which was (in effect) free.
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« Reply #127 on: March 17, 2013, 03:53:46 PM »

John - you seem to know a lot about Amazon, so can you answer me this?

Is the 'Amazon Verified Purchase' only for one when Amazon sell the book direct? ie. not when a licensed vendor is selling them through their Amazon seller account?

99% of our Amazon sales in the first 3-6 months were from our Amazon vendor account, not Amazon themselves. We also didn't release the kindle version until much later.

I don't know the answer to the above, I've googled it and looked at the T&Cs on Amazon but cant find an answer - but it may be an explanation to why there are not many early verified purchases.  
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« Reply #128 on: March 17, 2013, 03:57:02 PM »

John, who are you and what is your agenda here? 

Your analysis of the reviews and feedback this book has had is far more involved than that of someone with a passing interest in the book.

For what it's worth, I bought the book when it was released in kindle format, and thought it was OK.  I didn't feel I learnt a lot from it, but maybe one or two things were helpful, and that's usually the same with every poker book I've read.  However, these one or two things can make a big difference over the long-term though and so I'd view it as value for money.  I also couldn't give a toss what the reviews on Amazon say, as I've already bought the book - as you haveI'd prefer to make my own mind up and worry far less about the reviews on Amazon and their legitimacy.

If you have an axe to grind, and you're questioning the integrity of Jared and Barry, then full disclosure from you would probably be sensible.


No - he said he was THINKING of buying it. (See John's first post).


I am thinking of buying this book on Amazon.com

Ahh, I got confused. He also said.......


I am makin my way through the book, a lot of interesting points about learning in it. I can feel my inner inchworm growing...

I have some queries about certain aspects of the book, and its approach


So maybe he made a mistake in his first Post here.


I think what you mean by the last sentence is 'He was lying.' Which I am not. I am thinking of buying the book, I am making my way through it in audible format which was available as part of a promotion (and in effect, free).
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kinboshi
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« Reply #129 on: March 17, 2013, 03:57:52 PM »

No ad hominem attack, as I don't know who you are or why you have such an intense, personal interest in the subject matter.

If I was thinking of buying the book, I'd definitely listen to the reviews from a lot of the people on here, many of whom are decent poker players and have stated that they benefited greatly from the book.  I've also read it.

Either that, or I'd buy the book and make up my own mind.  As you've got it in audiobook format, you can very easily make up your own mind.
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« Reply #130 on: March 17, 2013, 04:02:52 PM »

John - you seem to know a lot about Amazon, so can you answer me this?

Is the 'Amazon Verified Purchase' only for one when Amazon sell the book direct? ie. not when a licensed vendor is selling them through their Amazon seller account?

99% of our Amazon sales in the first 3-6 months were from our Amazon vendor account, not Amazon themselves. We also didn't release the kindle version until much later.

I don't know the answer to the above, I've googled it and looked at the T&Cs on Amazon but cant find an answer - but it may be an explanation to why there are not many early verified purchases.  


I don't know one way or another Barry, could well be something like that. I'll have a snoop around, I bookmarked quite a few links earlier when I was looking into it.
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« Reply #131 on: March 17, 2013, 04:03:54 PM »

John - you seem to know a lot about Amazon, so can you answer me this?

Is the 'Amazon Verified Purchase' only for one when Amazon sell the book direct? ie. not when a licensed vendor is selling them through their Amazon seller account?

99% of our Amazon sales in the first 3-6 months were from our Amazon vendor account, not Amazon themselves. We also didn't release the kindle version until much later.

I don't know the answer to the above, I've googled it and looked at the T&Cs on Amazon but cant find an answer - but it may be an explanation to why there are not many early verified purchases.  


I don't know one way or another Barry, could well be something like that. I'll have a snoop around, I bookmarked quite a few links earlier when I was looking into it.

I've emailed their support to find out.
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« Reply #132 on: March 17, 2013, 04:08:36 PM »

Do you suffer from headaches much John?

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« Reply #133 on: March 17, 2013, 04:14:57 PM »

No ad hominem attack, as I don't know who you are or why you have such an intense, personal interest in the subject matter.

If I was thinking of buying the book, I'd definitely listen to the reviews from a lot of the people on here, many of whom are decent poker players and have stated that they benefited greatly from the book.  I've also read it.

Either that, or I'd buy the book and make up my own mind.  As you've got it in audiobook format, you can very easily make up your own mind.
I can't not really in audible format. I've already had to resort to taping it while I listen so that I have something I can shuttle about, as I would a book. He makes a lot of points that actually require a great deal of thinking and exploration to establish even if the premises are true or not.
I think if people, like vegaslover for example, spend half their poker time in monkey tilt then any book that forces them to address the causes of it, then it's bound to work wonders. There are a substantial number of people for whom it is a much more subtle affair, and it's absolutely requrred that the authors be completely accurate and comprehensive in dealing with the matter, and I do not think that this is occurring here. I also think that it is subtle, requires asking the right questions in a really informed and ruthless way, that just being a  decent poker player certainly does not on its own qualify you to make that judgement. It may feel like it has produced a big change in your game within the first year, because you are at last turning and addressing the issue head on. But if you're going to be relying on the content in 4 years time, staring down at an 800 pound call, and scrutinizing the distortions of your own tilt, and relying to do so on the musings of the leading expert who didn't even know that those distortions existed...then good luck!

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kinboshi
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« Reply #134 on: March 17, 2013, 04:15:07 PM »

Oh, and if you do buy the book - make sure you use the blonde affiliate link:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/ref=as_li_wdgt_ex?&linkCode=wsw&tag=blondepoker-21

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