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Author Topic: An Ape and a notebook, how long will it take?  (Read 476161 times)
pleno1
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« Reply #750 on: July 14, 2012, 08:16:50 PM »

no, you can play perfectly vs an opponent IN A VACUUM, which is the whole point, Making constant good decisions.
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pleno1
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« Reply #751 on: July 14, 2012, 08:43:58 PM »

example of bet bet bet when you have a good hand. it doesnt matter what the hell his calling range is

Dealt to pads1161 [ ]
dhilton12: folds
janboman: folds
woyakko: folds
pads1161: raises 80 to 120
Sambe8: calls 120
viebu: folds
TurnRiva: folds
teckidtq: folds
frankyhh_hh: folds
*** FLOP *** [three clubs ]
pads1161: bets 200
Sambe8: calls 200
*** TURN *** [three clubs ] []
pads1161: bets 560
Sambe8: raises 2173 to 2733 and is all-in
pads1161: calls 2173
*** RIVER *** [three clubs ] []
*** SHOW DOWN ***
pads1161: shows [ ] (a straight, Three to Seven)
Sambe8: shows [ ] (high card King)
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jgcblack
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« Reply #752 on: July 14, 2012, 10:30:15 PM »

I'm trying really hard mate...

All i can say is - show me.
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david3103
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« Reply #753 on: July 14, 2012, 10:34:08 PM »



Tbf turning second nut straight makes it a lot easier to bet bet bet
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pleno1
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« Reply #754 on: July 14, 2012, 10:39:30 PM »

I'm trying really hard mate...

All i can say is - show me.

not spewing isn't something that can be coached, its like you're a ticking time bomb, how can i teach you to bet when you have top pair or an overpair? how can i teach you to fold 88 when 2 guys have gone all in?

its really a psychological issue and its as if you chase your losses really badly.
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« Reply #755 on: July 15, 2012, 03:32:28 AM »

I'm trying really hard mate...

All i can say is - show me.

not spewing isn't something that can be coached, its like you're a ticking time bomb, how can i teach you to bet when you have top pair or an overpair? how can i teach you to fold 88 when 2 guys have gone all in?

its really a psychological issue and its as if you chase your losses really badly.
no no no

i really disagree...

I'm not punting... I'm not saying "oh i can win this one"

Seriously.  I'm saying "i think im ahead of his range here because of x, y or z.  As such, i can do e, f, or g in this situation.

I'm not stacking off with 88 pre because "i feel like it".. I'm stacking off with 88 pre vs a reg on the button who's been super aggro and i expect his 3bt/5btshove here with the super fish in the pot to be AJ+ A LOT... therefore 88 works.

Yes there will be X% when i get it in vs his JJ+ range, but the sheer quantity of AJ+ makes it profitable.. esp with the extra money from the shortstack.

I don't know if you're missing this, ignoring it, or looking past it as some random excuse.  But that's not how i see it at least.  After all, I've CALLED all in pre flop vs 2 opponents in this hand. 


Other than that, the - raise, bet, bet, bet = get called by worse situation has happened so infrequently at my stakes I just don't believe its a stable line i can use.




I'm obviously a lot improved from a couple of months ago, and i continue to improve.. however there are clearly some spots i still either overthink or think in the wrong way.  You tell me im playing 4-6 tables in order to 'think' and take unconventional lines so we can earn more $$ than the mass multitabling nerds.  BUT not once have i so far been 'praised' or 'ul mate i see what u did there, didnt work out this time'... so i wonder if im doing it right... or if im getting ul in the spots im getting OOL.  The 1010 hand is a perfect example of something being OOL i hardly do at all anymore, just sucks he had one of the few hands that call.

But don't anyone pretend to tell me that QQ-A9 are even thinking of calling seriously here.. when the guy is a reg and its a paired and 3flush board.  Because tbh imo that's a joke.
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pleno1
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« Reply #756 on: July 15, 2012, 03:44:38 AM »

The 1010hands are absolute trainwreck hands.

Ask 100 players and f ou can find 5. Who agree with nth lines il give 400 pound to charity of your choice.

The bet bet bet line is single most important part of micros I you don't agree with that yet then it will be the first and most important thing that you learn. Folding when your raised no matter how thin he reps
Is going to be the right vacuum play and until you do the very very basics right there is no point goog forward.

Speaking to Callum tidy he said he notices ur just trying to chase losses which would explain the 88, as dave also sad it's about playing 20k hands solidly.

In contrast I looked through my database and I've had less than 3 stop loss days in last 15 weeks at stakes that are aggressive at passive stakes they should be literally non existent nevermind semi common
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« Reply #757 on: July 15, 2012, 04:30:24 AM »

The 1010hands are absolute trainwreck hands.

Ask 100 players and f ou can find 5. Who agree with nth lines il give 400 pound to charity of your choice.



I think you're being massively hypercritical here, and in general with John, you are. In pha today you posted some hands one of which was you flopping a straight with A5 and the guy bets like 80 into 150 and you shove for 2900. The other you're talking about 3betting to induce with 44 on 822hhx.

Every player that commented so far has said they hate both lines you've taken and that at best case scenario it's "not terrible".

Same with other hands you've posted in the past (the T5o hand lingers in the memory!).

Yet despite everyone's advice, reasons and comments you still think that they're good plays. Making comments like "yeh I've thought about this a lot and I still really like my line". It's a really common theme. You post hand where you take ridiculous line. Everyone slates you for it. You conclude thread by saying "I think it's fine".

You and John are so similar, you're more mature and further "down the line", but you're really similar.
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« Reply #758 on: July 15, 2012, 04:31:29 AM »

Other than that, the - raise, bet, bet, bet = get called by worse situation has happened so infrequently at my stakes I just don't believe its a stable line i can use.


Not sure if serious?!
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smashedagain
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« Reply #759 on: July 15, 2012, 05:20:33 AM »

The 1010hands are absolute trainwreck hands.

Ask 100 players and f ou can find 5. Who agree with nth lines il give 400 pound to charity of your choice.



I think you're being massively hypercritical here, and in general with John, you are. In pha today you posted some hands one of which was you flopping a straight with A5 and the guy bets like 80 into 150 and you shove for 2900. The other you're talking about 3betting to induce with 44 on 822hhx.

Every player that commented so far has said they hate both lines you've taken and that at best case scenario it's "not terrible".

Same with other hands you've posted in the past (the T5o hand lingers in the memory!).

Yet despite everyone's advice, reasons and comments you still think that they're good plays. Making comments like "yeh I've thought about this a lot and I still really like my line". It's a really common theme. You post hand where you take ridiculous line. Everyone slates you for it. You conclude thread by saying "I think it's fine".

You and John are so similar, you're more mature and further "down the line", but you're really similar.
Accepting you are wrong is very hard to do. If after you have been presented with the evidence and still turn round and say I still like my way then this is very bad.
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pleno1
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« Reply #760 on: July 15, 2012, 12:40:34 PM »

The 1010hands are absolute trainwreck hands.

Ask 100 players and f ou can find 5. Who agree with nth lines il give 400 pound to charity of your choice.



I think you're being massively hypercritical here, and in general with John, you are. In pha today you posted some hands one of which was you flopping a straight with A5 and the guy bets like 80 into 150 and you shove for 2900. The other you're talking about 3betting to induce with 44 on 822hhx.

Every player that commented so far has said they hate both lines you've taken and that at best case scenario it's "not terrible".

Same with other hands you've posted in the past (the T5o hand lingers in the memory!).

Yet despite everyone's advice, reasons and comments you still think that they're good plays. Making comments like "yeh I've thought about this a lot and I still really like my line". It's a really common theme. You post hand where you take ridiculous line. Everyone slates you for it. You conclude thread by saying "I think it's fine".

You and John are so similar, you're more mature and further "down the line", but you're really similar.

Couldn't disagree with this more.

I'll just start this off with that I've coached over 20 people all massively improving their won rates. I have a good understanding of players needs and what they need to improve. I also know exactly what John needs to do and that is to play 20,000 hands lplaying a straight forward nitty game. Without just grinding and not making basic mistakes it will be impossible to progress.

Now regarding your in accurate comments.

I said ask 100people and less than 5 will agree. In the a5 hand there has been around 7/20 people who like it.

Like I have said time and time again before you can do the VERY basics you can't start trying to be fancy and trying to be cute

You learn about when is a good spot to do something once you e played 300,000 hands+ you understand situations/board textures etc alot better both you and jOhn come from a live enviroment and haven't played that many hands so perhaps I understand why you both think that because you try to do something non standard of is similar when on reality it really isn't.

I'll go into detail for you in simpler terms.

John has shoved the river for less than 0.5psb with 1010 on 99xxj.

It's 25 nl and when you do something thee has to be a reasOn for it. Somebody who can hand read well knows on the river he is polarised. Ie he never has 88 so has jx or a bluff. At 25 l people are never ever folding the river with a better hand than is.

Now let's look at the a5 hand. The flop is 234ddx And cut off raises, it's the vey first hand ofthetournament.

If we raise normally, he folds all his trash. He can call some overpairs that may hero fold later
If we call then there are a lot of bad turn cards and he bOardntextre could cont
Continue so that he hero c/fs turn or river
So now that we know he is goIng to fold y part of his range no matter what we do and can hero fold x part of his range if we raise or call then shoving becomes at least a good viable option.

Also the comment regarding me not accepting advice is bollocks. I posted 4 hands in 3 of them I replied thanks for the help guys and took on the advice.

The sentence 'dOnt run before you can walk' springs to mind with John. He can potentially be a good 50nl player but the basics absolutely have tO come first.

But what do I know, I'm just a fish clicking buttons right.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 12:51:58 PM by pleno1 » Logged

Worst playcalling I have ever seen. Bunch of  fucking jokers . Run the bloody ball. 18 rushes all game? You have to be kidding me. Fuck off lol
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« Reply #761 on: July 15, 2012, 01:35:58 PM »

Hey I was not having a go at you as its John's diary and was aimed at him. Once he listens to your advice and accepts it he starts moving up the levels quicker. After all what is the point of him taking you on as coach and then saying he still thinks he is right?

I don't know how to OPR but you are obv killing the online game ATM and targeting being the best zoom player in the world.

I just can't aggree with A5 hand but am prepared to listen and be proved wrong. Hope I never offended you. You deserve respect for all that you are doing with the coaching
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pleno1
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« Reply #762 on: July 15, 2012, 01:46:09 PM »

Hey I was not having a go at you as its John's diary and was aimed at him. Once he listens to your advice and accepts it he starts moving up the levels quicker. After all what is the point of him taking you on as coach and then saying he still thinks he is right?

I don't know how to OPR but you are obv killing the online game ATM and targeting being the best zoom player in the world.

I just can't aggree with A5 hand but am prepared to listen and be proved wrong. Hope I never offended you. You deserve respect for all that you are doing with the coaching

I hadn't even seen you had posted mate, I'm worlds worst iphoner.

I totally understand why you don't like the a5 I thInk it's gOod but understand where you're coming from and raising can definitely be better a huge % of the time.

No beef with you mate,  you'd get one of the prime spots in my advent calendar for blonde dw Smiley

I just wanted to try and explain my thought processes regarding the hands and reasons why John shouldn't be doing this. If he now thinks that I'm being hypocritical then it's probably the very worst case scenario because t will be harder to see that he's making an effort.
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« Reply #763 on: July 15, 2012, 01:59:16 PM »

Hi all,
firstly thanks to john for reproducing hands etc so we can see them and how they played, trying to learn a bit more myself and find it very useful.
secondly thanks pleno for replies and analys, also very useful.
thirdly, pleno dont think its  john suggesting u r hypoc ritical. seemed like alex was but maybe he means hyper critical as in too harsh on him, not sure.
anyway keep the hands and replies coming , cheers all
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« Reply #764 on: July 15, 2012, 02:17:03 PM »

Hey I was not having a go at you as its John's diary and was aimed at him. Once he listens to your advice and accepts it he starts moving up the levels quicker. After all what is the point of him taking you on as coach and then saying he still thinks he is right?

I don't know how to OPR but you are obv killing the online game ATM and targeting being the best zoom player in the world.

I just can't aggree with A5 hand but am prepared to listen and be proved wrong. Hope I never offended you. You deserve respect for all that you are doing with the coaching

I hadn't even seen you had posted mate, I'm worlds worst iphoner.

I totally understand why you don't like the a5 I thInk it's gOod but understand where you're coming from and raising can definitely be better a huge % of the time.

No beef with you mate,  you'd get one of the prime spots in my advent calendar for blonde dw Smiley

I just wanted to try and explain my thought processes regarding the hands and reasons why John shouldn't be doing this. If he now thinks that I'm being hypocritical then it's probably the very worst case scenario because t will be harder to see that he's making an effort.
Hey that hand you could easily be right but I am dumb and need convincing Smiley
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