An Ape and a notebook, how long will it take?

[pleno1]

I actually had a discussion when drunk with TL900 recently where he reckoned that because of the amount of poker he's played he think's he could insta-win at 50nl if he played it.

as i said to you then, name your stipulations and make it worthwhile for me and you got a wager

play a minimum of 18/16/6 on 4-6 tables only

why do i have to play certain stats? that doesnt make sense.. Also in theory the more tables i play the more edge you have, so that shouldnt be one either.

even i could multitable 10 tables playing nothing but 10/10/2 and win ... its not hard, its not playing streets and playing poker.  That's just being a super nit and waiting for people to spazz.

that's not 'poker' in my mind.  It's just waiting for coolers and being on the +ve side more than the others because ur a nit.  I don't consider that skillful poker.

facepalm.gif

[jgcblack]

Might as well just play a 50bb stack and only play QQ+/ AK.. That would 'win'.
its not poker tho.

I may be completely off the wall crazy here, but dont some of you believe that in order to win at the highest levels you need to be able to both bet and call with a less than 'nutz' range? And the better you are the more you do it when you are correct.

I knew I would get the facepalm.gif before I posted that. Im not a complete moron, but explain what you think then.. And WHY?

What is poker?
What is Winning poker?

Anyone want to bet that I can't beat 50nl right now??? (albeit with a super nitty style)

Anyone going to put some comments in the post previous about cash levels..

Off to work, laters..

[stato_1]

Ill bet that yeah. In order to be able to win at the highest levels you have to understand the game well enough to adjust to various games in terms of making money. "Poker" is maximising your ev as much as possible at every given decision point.

It's like saying that football is about who does the most extravagant tricks/skills during a game, it isn't it's who scores most goals.

I've not looked at the hands yet. Will do now

[stato_1]

1. river is a bit gross... c/f probably
2. not really sure what ur trying to achieve by jamming turn. picked up pretty strong SDV, call again
3. wp, ul
4. definitely fold pre under any circumstances. like postflop until river. Why are we jamming now?
5. why are we jamming the river?! as a guideline if unsure on the river. closing our eyes and jamming entire stack in not option 1
6. spew. not repping anything. fold turn if not flop
7. prob fine ul
8. cant imagine this is a standard get in at 25nl. could be wrong though
9. 4betting pre seems a bit disastrous, ok it seems like the cold caller is a fish but ur crushed by the 3bettors range even
10. ul
11. definitely raise flop, definitely jam turn, this is 25nl you have a straight on a wet board. FPS is not a good idea
12. spew
13. close to fold pre? turn feels like a fold. not 100% tho
14. definitely 3b pre. tough spot now.
15. meh
16. why?
17. bad get in, flat pre, most likely fold to the 4bet if not
18. if u need to raise this flop go bigger to give yourself a more favourable SPR for the turn
19. dont actually mind this that much
20. ul

[Pugwashed]

1. Check/fold river
2. Call and call most rivers
3. standard cooler is standard
4. Fold pre. Flop and turn seem good, river shove is too thin imo
5. Turn sizing seems a bit big but fine, check/fold river
6. Check/fold flop. As played check/fold turn. As played check/fold river.
7. Don't mind but would be tempted to peel. You get to play a 3way flop with a SPR of 2, your top pairs that you can make play pretty well in that spot
8. 4b/calling is pretty bad here and your sizing is way too big. You can just flat the 3bet, one of the good things about minraising the button is it allows you to flat more 3bets
9. Would just flat the 3bet
10. see number 3.
11. Would raise flop a decent amount, probably just 3b shove the turn, otherwise see number 10.
12. Just no need
13. Fold pre. Turn is awkward. Probably fold.
14. Seems fine but probably 3betting as a standard there
15. You should be 3betting more of your good hands, as played I think just 4b shoving might be better than the small 4b, small 4b looks super strong
16. If I'm cold 4b bluffing I'm probably doing it with 2 blockers instead of just the one. Just bet/fold the flop.
17. Readless I flat pre, some people I'd be completely fine with this against
18. Fold turn. Also check/raise on the flop is probably too small.
19. Seems ok but I think his calling range on the river is probably pretty inelastic (won't change with your bet sizing) so I don't think you need to shove, you can bet 8.25 and he still folds 99/44-77 so you get a better price on your bluff
20. see number 3 again

[pleno1]

firstly, i really think not moving down when you were supposed to shows a huge sign of degeneracy "i know i can win" and huge disrespect to me, especially when you know we had the trust talk last month. many of the hands show huge degeneracy where there is no control and you just want to try to win with less than 20% equity in alot of spots.


http://weaktight.com/4974327
explanation required

http://weaktight.com/4974322
explanation required

http://weaktight.com/4974330
degenerate gambling, burning huge money, unacceptable

[JustinSayne]

even i could multitable 10 tables playing nothing but 10/10/2 and win ... its not hard, its not playing streets and playing poker.  That's just being a super nit and waiting for people to spazz.

If its that easy, just do that and print money LDO

Anyone want to bet that I can't beat 50nl right now??? (albeit with a super nitty style)

Willing to lay 3 to 1 over a 100k sample.

[JustinSayne]

i know it seems lol but what do you think it takes to win @ each level?

10nl - Dont tilt - Dont spew - Valuebet

25nl - Dont tilt - Dont spew - Valuebet

50nl - Dont tilt - Dont spew - Valuebet

100nl - Dont tilt - Dont spew - Valuebet

200nl - Dont tilt - Dont spew - Valuebet

400nl - Dont tilt - Dont spew - Valuebet

600nl - Dont tilt - Dont spew - Valuebet

1knl - Dont tilt - Dont spew - Valuebet

[SuuPRlim]

We have Channing on the rail of our table chatting about betting and so on... he's too busy to play himself.

doing ok so far. - read "haven't blown up trying to 7bt bluff a 25bb stack off a pair preflop"

Well this is embarrasing....


We ended up giving all our chippies to Adam Picken to our direct right after .....


wait for it....











5bt bluff shoving  pre for 9000 chippies - avg was 7.4k.


[ ] went well
[X] he had a pair
[ ] we had an over
[ ] he had KK/ AA
[X] he flopped draw as well



feeling a little horrid about it now, but in the silliest way this will sound.


UP to THAT specific spot, I think I played really, really well.  Chuffed with my performance and hand reading/ adjusting etc.. and feel that I let Dave down with a 'blowup'.

Feel same as I did when I lost Persaud's £200 in The Vic, I know he staked me knowing im not perfect, and i blew up... but just want to give him his money back.

sigh.....

you didn't let me down mate dw I did ok on the coup

[SuuPRlim]

John

thanks for your support of the  hand on Saturday

I'm pretty sure his calling the 3bet with AJo was poor, and he's beating very little that should be in my range when I shove so maybe the rivered seven was justice.

Poker karma got me back though with the KKvAA hand


Looking forward to seeing your homework being publicly dissected over the next few days :-)

OHHHHHHH!

That was you, we kept making eye contact and I was like, god dam I recognize this guy feel really rude! Ah this makes sense now.

You were pretty loony tbh lol the 83dd hand is kinda spewy I don't really like the 3bet too much but its certainly not terrible, he should have 4b/folded AJ, fold vs pretty much everyone even stacking off on that board isn't great imo.

Sick, nice playing with you

[stato_1]

1. Check/fold river
2. Call and call most rivers
3. standard cooler is standard
4. Fold pre. Flop and turn seem good, river shove is too thin imo
5. Turn sizing seems a bit big but fine, check/fold river
6. Check/fold flop. As played check/fold turn. As played check/fold river.
7. Don't mind but would be tempted to peel. You get to play a 3way flop with a SPR of 2, your top pairs that you can make play pretty well in that spot
8. 4b/calling is pretty bad here and your sizing is way too big. You can just flat the 3bet, one of the good things about minraising the button is it allows you to flat more 3bets
9. Would just flat the 3bet
10. see number 3.
11. Would raise flop a decent amount, probably just 3b shove the turn, otherwise see number 10.
12. Just no need
13. Fold pre. Turn is awkward. Probably fold.
14. Seems fine but probably 3betting as a standard there
15. You should be 3betting more of your good hands, as played I think just 4b shoving might be better than the small 4b, small 4b looks super strong
16. If I'm cold 4b bluffing I'm probably doing it with 2 blockers instead of just the one. Just bet/fold the flop.
17. Readless I flat pre, some people I'd be completely fine with this against
18. Fold turn. Also check/raise on the flop is probably too small.
19. Seems ok but I think his calling range on the river is probably pretty inelastic (won't change with your bet sizing) so I don't think you need to shove, you can bet 8.25 and he still folds 99/44-77 so you get a better price on your bluff
20. see number 3 again

lol, 20/20 exactly the same as what i said.

[Pugwashed]

1. Check/fold river
2. Call and call most rivers
3. standard cooler is standard
4. Fold pre. Flop and turn seem good, river shove is too thin imo
5. Turn sizing seems a bit big but fine, check/fold river
6. Check/fold flop. As played check/fold turn. As played check/fold river.
7. Don't mind but would be tempted to peel. You get to play a 3way flop with a SPR of 2, your top pairs that you can make play pretty well in that spot
8. 4b/calling is pretty bad here and your sizing is way too big. You can just flat the 3bet, one of the good things about minraising the button is it allows you to flat more 3bets
9. Would just flat the 3bet
10. see number 3.
11. Would raise flop a decent amount, probably just 3b shove the turn, otherwise see number 10.
12. Just no need
13. Fold pre. Turn is awkward. Probably fold.
14. Seems fine but probably 3betting as a standard there
15. You should be 3betting more of your good hands, as played I think just 4b shoving might be better than the small 4b, small 4b looks super strong
16. If I'm cold 4b bluffing I'm probably doing it with 2 blockers instead of just the one. Just bet/fold the flop.
17. Readless I flat pre, some people I'd be completely fine with this against
18. Fold turn. Also check/raise on the flop is probably too small.
19. Seems ok but I think his calling range on the river is probably pretty inelastic (won't change with your bet sizing) so I don't think you need to shove, you can bet 8.25 and he still folds 99/44-77 so you get a better price on your bluff
20. see number 3 again

lol, 20/20 exactly the same as what i said.

  No plagiarism... honest. Most of those spots don't seem close tbf, although after rereading I could've saved some time by just putting 'see stato' for a bunch of the responses

[david3103]

John

thanks for your support of the  hand on Saturday

I'm pretty sure his calling the 3bet with AJo was poor, and he's beating very little that should be in my range when I shove so maybe the rivered seven was justice.

Poker karma got me back though with the KKvAA hand


Looking forward to seeing your homework being publicly dissected over the next few days :-)

OHHHHHHH!

That was you, we kept making eye contact and I was like, god dam I recognize this guy feel really rude! Ah this makes sense now.

You were pretty loony tbh lol the 83dd hand is kinda spewy I don't really like the 3bet too much but its certainly not terrible, he should have 4b/folded AJ, fold vs pretty much everyone even stacking off on that board isn't great imo.

Sick, nice playing with you

I'm going to take all that as a compliment, even the 'pretty loony' line

I kept looking because I thought I knew who you were, but couldn't be sure and besides, conversations seem to be frowned upon at the table these days.

[edgascoigne]

Right, here we go....be interested to see how many out of a Stato 20 I get!


1.   Why so much pre – 5x? Jamming river seems spewy.
2.   Ul
3.   Just call pre. Ul post.
4.   Spew calling pre
5.   Why 4x pre? Check turn. Give up river as played.
6.   Fold turn, wtf is river
7.   Once you’ve flatted pre once, flat again
8.   Why min raise? 4/call really profitable here at NL25?
9.   4b pre is spew
10.   Ul
11.   Cooler but get more in the pot on the flop/turn
12.   SPEW
13.   Eugh. Fold pre?
14.   3b pre. Ul as played.
15.   3b pre avoids this mess
16.   You’re suddenly cold 4betting the SB with A4s at 25NL when you miss easy value 3bets in other hands. WTF is happening on the flop also?
17.   Flat pre
18.   Spew post
19.   Facepalm
20.   Why no 3bet? Why no 4bet once he bets? You’ve played this really differently to earlier AK hands in similar spots I think?


EDIT: Checking against Stato's answers I get 15 where we say the same thing, 3 where we pick up on different things (2,7,8) and two where I gave different answer (19,20)

DISCLAIMER: I don't play online and in the heat of the moment I am as capable of FPS as the next man.....but gut feel would be that moments such as a handful of these are what's keeping you as a losing player at the moment?

I mean, if I choose to go and splash around at live cash it's because I #lovethegame, enjoy the challenge, enjoy the banter and feel like I'm also not too much of a spot.

I don't grind online.....but if I did....it would be to make money rather than because I enjoy 4/6/8 tabling or whatever. I mean, do you really enjoy grinding NL10/25? Or is it because you dream of progressing to NL400/600/1K ?

I guess my point is, you won't get to do the latter until you 'complete' the former, and by FPSing and spewing you are keeping yourself 'caged' at small stakes, if this makes sense?

[smashedagain]

Hope Pleno ain't really made with you. Just love John Black but big respect for Patrick taking you on