Independence Referendum

[arbboy]

I'm not voting. So no axe to grind. But the behaviour of some of the yes voters is a complete embarrassment.

Somerled seems to make some decent posts. Not saw much anti English stuff up here.

Please vote!  I have backed over 75% voter turnout.  Every little helps!

[celtic]

Ha, too late, had to register by last week.

[maccol]

No, not seen or heard much direct anti-English sentiment myself and I have driven down streets with alternating "Yes" and "No"  signs the length of the street.
The issue is becoming the Yessers being unable to hold a civilised debate and resorting to shouting down the opposition.

[Kmac84]

What utter bullshit.  It shows how little the no voters have engaged in political discussion outwith their own when they can't see that there are many in the yes camp who think its allgoing to be sunshine and roses after independence.  That is only the start, As Connolly said in his writings

"If you remove the English army to-morrow and hoist the green flag over Dublin Castle, unless you set about the organisation of the Socialist Republic your efforts would be in vain.

England would still rule you. She would rule you through her capitalists, through her landlords, through her financiers, through the whole array of commercial and individualist institutions she has planted in this country and watered with the tears of our mothers "

The situation is very different but the context of the quote remains.  I don't support Salmond's vision of an Independent Scotland, indeed I am not sure I agree with many of the mainstreams ideas.  I do though like what has been expressed by Jim Sillars, Pete Ramand and Robin McAlpine.

I despair at people who would, given the chance gve their sovereignty away.  But its not unexpected when some actually accept the fact that they are too wee, too stupid and too poor to stand on their own two feet.  Shame on them.  I will, though welcome them in an independent Scotland if they chose to remain here but frankly, I couldn't give a toss if they decided to leave.  We'd be better for it.  

[Eck]

It's becoming more cultist with every passing day. What really worries me is the way the thes Yessers are not prepared to see a single weakness in anything said by the Yes campaign. They seem to be utterly blinded by the end goal.

Folk have openly admitted to me that they don't care how Independence is achieved, so long as it is achieved. If this means lying, burying evidence, hiding ones views and principles then so be it. If the Holy Grail is achieved then the ends justify the means. Personally I find this quite hideous.

I am 100% for people having more say and control over their lives. But there is nothing whatsoever to suggest that this will be the case in an iScotland. The White Paper's statements on alcohol alone should be enough to terrify most folk. "Just vote Yes and we'll take care of you and decide what's best for you" seems to be the attitude. And as for the SNP presenting themselves as some caring left wing socialist party, it's just hilarious. But if they can persude enough folk that they've nothing to lose so might as well have a gamble, then they might just manage it.

great post.

Sorry how is this a great post yet Kmac is slated for being unbalanced? Somerled is clearly in the No camp but to suggest that the Yes campaign are the only ones being blinkered and have possibly attempted to mislead the electorate is pretty ridiculous.

Seen no anti-English sentiment anywhere, work with quite a few they haven't said a thing not suggesting nothing is going on but using the daily mail as a source is stretching it possibly?

[Kmac84]

No, not seen or heard much direct anti-English sentiment myself and I have driven down streets with alternating "Yes" and "No"  signs the length of the street.
The issue is becoming the Yessers being unable to hold a civilised debate and resorting to shouting down the opposition.

That is utter nonsesne, it may well be that individuals shout each other down but the no camp run feart of any sort on independent debate they can't control.

I am a Union rep for the biggest building society in the UK and I have trried to set up numerous debats with representatives of both sides, and despite my union takinga position of impartiality the No camp have refused advances of all types not just the official Better Together but United With Labour, The Lib Dems, Labour Party Tory's etc not one of them would come to debate.  Why would that be?

[Kmac84]

It's becoming more cultist with every passing day. What really worries me is the way the thes Yessers are not prepared to see a single weakness in anything said by the Yes campaign. They seem to be utterly blinded by the end goal.

Folk have openly admitted to me that they don't care how Independence is achieved, so long as it is achieved. If this means lying, burying evidence, hiding ones views and principles then so be it. If the Holy Grail is achieved then the ends justify the means. Personally I find this quite hideous.

I am 100% for people having more say and control over their lives. But there is nothing whatsoever to suggest that this will be the case in an iScotland. The White Paper's statements on alcohol alone should be enough to terrify most folk. "Just vote Yes and we'll take care of you and decide what's best for you" seems to be the attitude. And as for the SNP presenting themselves as some caring left wing socialist party, it's just hilarious. But if they can persude enough folk that they've nothing to lose so might as well have a gamble, then they might just manage it.

great post.

Sorry how is this a great post yet Kmac is slated for being unbalanced?
[/quote

Because it fits with their narrative.

I am unbalanced, not mentally - yet, but in this debate.  However I openly admit  my position, I don't hide it.  I van however substantiate my views from work on the ground, canvassing work, telephone conversations with hundreds of people not through reading some right wing rag or just looking at my facebook. 

[Kmac84]

http://davidpetherick.wordpress.com/2014/09/05/scotsman-article-on-lamonts-journey-to-govan-gets-lost-but-we-found-it/

[Kmac84]

This is absolute genius from Farage, please send him North. 

[Somerled]

It's becoming more cultist with every passing day. What really worries me is the way the thes Yessers are not prepared to see a single weakness in anything said by the Yes campaign. They seem to be utterly blinded by the end goal.

Folk have openly admitted to me that they don't care how Independence is achieved, so long as it is achieved. If this means lying, burying evidence, hiding ones views and principles then so be it. If the Holy Grail is achieved then the ends justify the means. Personally I find this quite hideous.

I am 100% for people having more say and control over their lives. But there is nothing whatsoever to suggest that this will be the case in an iScotland. The White Paper's statements on alcohol alone should be enough to terrify most folk. "Just vote Yes and we'll take care of you and decide what's best for you" seems to be the attitude. And as for the SNP presenting themselves as some caring left wing socialist party, it's just hilarious. But if they can persude enough folk that they've nothing to lose so might as well have a gamble, then they might just manage it.

great post.

Sorry how is this a great post yet Kmac is slated for being unbalanced?
[/quote

Because it fits with their narrative.

I am unbalanced, not mentally - yet, but in this debate.  However I openly admit  my position, I don't hide it.  I van however substantiate my views from work on the ground, canvassing work, telephone conversations with hundreds of people not through reading some right wing rag or just looking at my facebook. 

Who is it gets their views from a "right wing rag"? Anyone in particular, or just anyone who isn't voting Yes?

[arbboy]

This is absolute genius from Farage, please send him North.  

Nig just telling you how reliant the Scots are on benefits compared to the rest of the UK pro rata (ie England subsides your benefit bill) and that you won't be truely independent because you will still be tied to the EU and/or the euro.  Not entirely sure how what he said in that 6 mins helps the yes vote??  

I agree send him North so it makes No more likely to win however as he would make deluded Yes voters realise they won't be better off/there won't be that much change if they vote yes but they have a shit load of risk to take on board if it all going tits up.

[TightEnd]

Looks to me a case of saying one thing in public to avoid the hassle/violence/eggs and once you are in the privacy of the ballot box area ticking the no box (better the devil you know).  I really think No is becoming close to a maximum bet at the prices once the hype dies down and reality sets in and people realise the bully boy tactics that are taking place from the yes vote.

In Quebec in 1995 the separatists had 7% lead in final polls. They lost.

similar may happen this time. people too intimidated to publically shout up for No, and it is also much easier to do a campaign for change than the campaign for a status quo to remain....but in the safety of the ballot box they will go back to what feels safest.


there's no sign of this panelbase report either is there...was rumoured to be yes in the poll lead but then pulled because it didn't....

[neeko]

This is absolute genius from Farage, please send him North. 

Please take him north and don't let him back south

[Ironside]

This is absolute genius from Farage, please send him North. 

Please take him north and don't let him back south

one of the greatest reasons to vote yes

[Rod Paradise]

Looks to me a case of saying one thing in public to avoid the hassle/violence/eggs and once you are in the privacy of the ballot box area ticking the no box (better the devil you know).  I really think No is becoming close to a maximum bet at the prices once the hype dies down and reality sets in and people realise the bully boy tactics that are taking place from the yes vote.

In Quebec in 1995 the separatists had 7% lead in final polls. They lost.

similar may happen this time. people too intimidated to publically shout up for No, and it is also much easier to do a campaign for change than the campaign for a status quo to remain....but in the safety of the ballot box they will go back to what feels safest.


there's no sign of this panelbase report either is there...was rumoured to be yes in the poll lead but then pulled because it didn't....

Tighty don't believe the rubbish from the Mail & Telegraph - you could get a full time job showing the holes in their nonsense.

The No side has had a tactic of crying foul on Yes at every turn, even though the incidents of violence are far more from No, they haven't been getting the big press that egging that clown Murphy got. The day the egg attack was the main leader in the press a man was convicted of death threats to Salmond. There have been attacks on Yes campaign stalls in Edinburgh recently, a few weeks back there were 3 arrests for racist abuse of an asian-descent Yes campaigner in Dumfries but the Mail runs with 2 flags removed in a couple of years as the crime of Yes?

Was it the Mail or the Telegraph writing about the fears of Scottish abuse for English competitors at the Commonwealth games? There had never been any suggestion of it so they invented a crisis - which didn't materialise.

At least the Independent had some balance: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/scottish-independence/scottish-independence-could-the-referendum-be-settled-by-the-english-9714987.html