Independence Referendum

[Eck]

The White Paper's statements on alcohol alone should be enough to terrify most folk. "Just vote Yes and we'll take care of you and decide what's best for you" seems to be the attitude.

Was intrigued by this, from what I understand they propose a minimum unit price for alcohol. Given our nations terrible use of alcohol why do you think this is so bad?

[Kmac84]

This is absolute genius from Farage, please send him North.  

Nig just telling you how reliant the Scots are on benefits compared to the rest of the UK pro rata (ie England subsides your benefit bill) and that you won't be truely independent because you will still be tied to the EU and/or the euro.  Not entirely sure how what he said in that 6 mins helps the yes vote??  

I agree send him North so it makes No more likely to win however as he would make deluded Yes voters realise they won't be better off/there won't be that much change if they vote yes but they have a shit load of risk to take on board if it all going tits up.

Utter fucking pish!

Not only is it pish but uninformed shit, if anything we subsidise the rest of the UK.

[maccol]

This is absolute genius from Farage, please send him North.  

Nig just telling you how reliant the Scots are on benefits compared to the rest of the UK pro rata (ie England subsides your benefit bill) and that you won't be truely independent because you will still be tied to the EU and/or the euro.  Not entirely sure how what he said in that 6 mins helps the yes vote??  

I agree send him North so it makes No more likely to win however as he would make deluded Yes voters realise they won't be better off/there won't be that much change if they vote yes but they have a shit load of risk to take on board if it all going tits up.

Utter fucking pish!

Not only is it pish but uninformed shit, if anything we subsidise the rest of the UK.

I rest my case.

[arbboy]

This is absolute genius from Farage, please send him North.  

Nig just telling you how reliant the Scots are on benefits compared to the rest of the UK pro rata (ie England subsides your benefit bill) and that you won't be truely independent because you will still be tied to the EU and/or the euro.  Not entirely sure how what he said in that 6 mins helps the yes vote??  

I agree send him North so it makes No more likely to win however as he would make deluded Yes voters realise they won't be better off/there won't be that much change if they vote yes but they have a shit load of risk to take on board if it all going tits up.

Utter fucking pish!

Not only is it pish but uninformed shit, if anything we subsidise the rest of the UK.

Kmac why can't you just discuss issues without flying off the handle every time?  What part of what Nig said is factually incorrect?  I am happy to listen.  I am pretty sure if you have the Euro or Sterling as your currency what i said is factually correct (ie you will not be truely independent)

[Rod Paradise]

This is absolute genius from Farage, please send him North.  

Nig just telling you how reliant the Scots are on benefits compared to the rest of the UK pro rata (ie England subsides your benefit bill) and that you won't be truely independent because you will still be tied to the EU and/or the euro.  Not entirely sure how what he said in that 6 mins helps the yes vote??  

I agree send him North so it makes No more likely to win however as he would make deluded Yes voters realise they won't be better off/there won't be that much change if they vote yes but they have a shit load of risk to take on board if it all going tits up.

Utter fucking pish!

Not only is it pish but uninformed shit, if anything we subsidise the rest of the UK.

Kmac why can't you just discuss issues without flying off the handle every time?  What part of what Nig said is factually incorrect?  I am happy to listen.  I am pretty sure if you have the Euro or Sterling as your currency what i said is factually correct (ie you will not be truely independent)

Only by some strange definition of Independence, so I'd argue your idea that independence is defined by a currency, rather than self-determination. In the end being in control of our income, spending, laws etc etc works for me as Independence, I'd also point out that most newly independent countries continue to use their pre-independence currency for some time until the time is right to split from it, they don't seem to have been non-independent to the rest of the world, this strange 'independent but not really' status seems invented specifically for this argument.

Out of interest how long was Sterling 'independent' in the 1900's? I think you'll find currency unions with bigger countries took up a lot of that time, was the UK independent in your eyes?

[Somerled]

The White Paper's statements on alcohol alone should be enough to terrify most folk. "Just vote Yes and we'll take care of you and decide what's best for you" seems to be the attitude.

Was intrigued by this, from what I understand they propose a minimum unit price for alcohol. Given our nations terrible use of alcohol why do you think this is so bad?

Everything they've done so far targets the on-trade which is emphatically not where the problem lies. Read the white paper. It basically implies that whisky has been singled out for punitive duties because it's made in Scotland - which is also not true - and suggests raising all other duties too, giving English producers an automatic advantage.

Minimum pricing will only help to a very small degree, the only answer is in education.

[Kmac84]

I wouldn't fly off the handle if such unadulterated pish wasn't posted and past off as fact, I had previously assumed you were a fairly well educated fella Arb, but it seems you lack ability to think for yourself and simply believe the propoganda that depicts the Scots as subsidy junkies.

@mccool - you don't have a case.

[arbboy]

I wouldn't fly off the handle if such unadulterated pish wasn't posted and past off as fact, I had previously assumed you were a fairly well educated fella Arb, but it seems you lack ability to think for yourself and simply believe the propoganda that depicts the Scots as subsidy junkies.

@mccool - you don't have a case.

I asked you to inform me which parts of what nig said were untrue i am awaiting your response.  They were not my statements and i never said whether i had the same views or not.  I just asked you to inform me what part of what he said was factually incorrect.

[AndrewT]

Yougov poll in The Sunday Times tomorrow has Yes at 51%

[Kmac84]

The White Paper's statements on alcohol alone should be enough to terrify most folk. "Just vote Yes and we'll take care of you and decide what's best for you" seems to be the attitude.

Was intrigued by this, from what I understand they propose a minimum unit price for alcohol. Given our nations terrible use of alcohol why do you think this is so bad?

Everything they've done so far targets the on-trade which is emphatically not where the problem lies. Read the white paper. It basically implies that whisky has been singled out for punitive duties because it's made in Scotland - which is also not true - and suggests raising all other duties too, giving English producers an automatic advantage.

Minimum pricing will only help to a very small degree, the only answer is in education.

I agree regards education but there is a tradition and culture in Scotland that has been played on by successive UK governments who prefer to control rather than empower and many of the ways they have targeted and set up QUANGO'S to deal with the ills of society are a massive failure. The whole approach needs radically overhauled.

But this isn't a debate for the referendum as has been stated by many of us in the Yes camp this is not about the SNP, The White Paper or Alex Salmond. There will me many new positions and opinions adopted after the vote. The question is simply should Scotland be an independent country and of course the answer is YES, like almost every other country in the world it's our time to be normal.

[Kmac84]

I wouldn't fly off the handle if such unadulterated pish wasn't posted and past off as fact, I had previously assumed you were a fairly well educated fella Arb, but it seems you lack ability to think for yourself and simply believe the propoganda that depicts the Scots as subsidy junkies.

@mccool - you don't have a case.

I asked you to inform me which parts of what nig said were untrue i am awaiting your response.  They were not my statements and i never said whether i had the same views or not.  I just asked you to inform me what part of what he said was factually incorrect.

What bits do you think were true and we can go from there?

[arbboy]

I wouldn't fly off the handle if such unadulterated pish wasn't posted and past off as fact, I had previously assumed you were a fairly well educated fella Arb, but it seems you lack ability to think for yourself and simply believe the propoganda that depicts the Scots as subsidy junkies.

@mccool - you don't have a case.

I asked you to inform me which parts of what nig said were untrue i am awaiting your response.  They were not my statements and i never said whether i had the same views or not.  I just asked you to inform me what part of what he said was factually incorrect.

What bits do you think were true and we can go from there?

You are like a westminster pro answering questions with questions.  I asked first so i will let you answer first. 

[Rod Paradise]

The White Paper's statements on alcohol alone should be enough to terrify most folk. "Just vote Yes and we'll take care of you and decide what's best for you" seems to be the attitude.

Was intrigued by this, from what I understand they propose a minimum unit price for alcohol. Given our nations terrible use of alcohol why do you think this is so bad?

Everything they've done so far targets the on-trade which is emphatically not where the problem lies. Read the white paper. It basically implies that whisky has been singled out for punitive duties because it's made in Scotland - which is also not true - and suggests raising all other duties too, giving English producers an automatic advantage.

Minimum pricing will only help to a very small degree, the only answer is in education.

This confused me - the Government is trying to implement minimum pricing for off sales, if anyone can find a pub that sell their drink for less than the proposed minimum please tell me.

I've just searched the White Paper, since your claim of implied singling out of whisky must be really well hidden. There is talk of minimum pricing (again most whisky isn't affected, the distilleries are fighting it over the effect on the bog standard vodkas they sell AFAIK), but the only mention of whisky is wrt exports.

Maybe you could copy the bit you're talking about?

[Somerled]

The White Paper's statements on alcohol alone should be enough to terrify most folk. "Just vote Yes and we'll take care of you and decide what's best for you" seems to be the attitude.

Was intrigued by this, from what I understand they propose a minimum unit price for alcohol. Given our nations terrible use of alcohol why do you think this is so bad?

Everything they've done so far targets the on-trade which is emphatically not where the problem lies. Read the white paper. It basically implies that whisky has been singled out for punitive duties because it's made in Scotland - which is also not true - and suggests raising all other duties too, giving English producers an automatic advantage.

Minimum pricing will only help to a very small degree, the only answer is in education.

This confused me - the Government is trying to implement minimum pricing for off sales, if anyone can find a pub that sell their drink for less than the proposed minimum please tell me.

I've just searched the White Paper, since your claim if implied singling out of whisky must be really well hidden. There is talk of minimum pricing (again most whisky isn't affected, the distilleries are fighting it over the effect on the bog standard vodkas they sell AFAIK), but the only mention of whisky is wrt exports.

Maybe you could copy the bit you're talking about?

It does. There's a table in there showing whisky as the only spirit paying duty at 40%. Which it obviously isn't. The minimum pricing is the first thing they've proposed which affects off sales. Meantime pubs are closing all over the place.

Do you know how long it is that Scotland has had the worst liver disease record in Europe? It's only since the 1990s. Which is when people stopped drinking in pubs and drank at home instead.

Fortunately Scottish food & drink exports are on a massive upward curve right now - which is a great thing. That will continue with a No vote, will it continue with a Yes vote? I don't know.

[Eck]

Jeez i type slow took me ages so not deleting just cos rodley asked first. Watching tv and playing at the same time my excuse 

The White Paper's statements on alcohol alone should be enough to terrify most folk. "Just vote Yes and we'll take care of you and decide what's best for you" seems to be the attitude.

Was intrigued by this, from what I understand they propose a minimum unit price for alcohol. Given our nations terrible use of alcohol why do you think this is so bad?

Everything they've done so far targets the on-trade which is emphatically not where the problem lies. Read the white paper. It basically implies that whisky has been singled out for punitive duties because it's made in Scotland - which is also not true - and suggests raising all other duties too, giving English producers an automatic advantage.

Minimum pricing will only help to a very small degree, the only answer is in education.

I have just scanned the white paper and can't see anything mentioned in any detail other than a proposal for minimum unit pricing for alcohol. The only mention whisky gets is the concern that if were taken out of the EU by Westminster we will lose the backing of the EU’s trade negotiations with countries like India, the United States and China. So when you say implies what does it actually say?

I totally agree that education is part of the answer but as a range of measures within which pricing is a useful tool - not my words they are my wife's a healthcare professional working in the addictions field for over 20 years.

Can you tell me what they have done so far to target the on-trade (I assume this is your line of business)